32nd Field Ambulance, Suvla Bay

[Sean Wood]

Thanks Howard,

I think the ditch in the sketch plan is probably to small to be indicated on the maps.

Pitty we don't know where Two Tree Hill is.  It's marked on the plan and mentioned in some of the written memoirs, but can't find any reference to it on the Internet.

I will  keep looking.

Regards.

Sean

 

[Howard]

17 hours ago, Sean Wood said:

Thanks Howard,

I think the ditch in the sketch plan is probably to small to be indicated on the maps.

Pitty we don't know where Two Tree Hill is.  It's marked on the plan and mentioned in some of the written memoirs, but can't find any reference to it on the Internet.

I will  keep looking.

Regards.

Sean

 

True, but on the Sevki Pasa maps it shows intermittent water courses (i.e. may be the ditch) as a dotted line. The orientation of the ditch in the sketch roughly matches that running through the camp but does not match the tracks.

On the hand drawn md_022249-08, it shows a CCS very near the cut labelled 53 CCS as it is on md_022248-21 and md_022248-21. It is also shown hand annotated on m_028232.

The OP refers to B Beach and the maps shows Mules Lines:- On m_028232 in squares 116.u and 117.Q is says "Mule Lines" at approximately 40.314855, 26.243069. Further up the coast it shows the label A Beach but sadly not B Beach. (In TrenchMapper, you can right click and use Lat/Lon Jump with coordinates.)

On ma_003130 it labels the whole beach as A Beach but on md_022248-15 it is hand annotated with Old A. On md_022248-11 the location of 53 CCS is also labelled A Beach and Old A Beach is below the cut. On md_024094 it shows B Beach to be way below the salt lake, below Nibrunesii Point, so does md_022248-28.

On m_028225 is labels the area as Sand Hills so Two Tree Hill may just be a local sand hill. The scale of the map would support that, i.e. Two Tree Hill would be very small.

alantwo’s post says that “32nd FA ADS took up a position at 105 H3 on 6/9/15.” Sadly Gallipoli maps used a number of different and incompatible grid systems so map references are troublesome. However, if we take m_84_000031 to show the grid, that will be at co-ordinates 40.300126, 26.285528. Then looking at m_012406-48, it shows 105 H3 to be very close to the front line. It maybe that 105 H3 is on a different grid system so be in another place.

The original sketch in the OP shows Great Bayonet Charge and Mule Transport Road forming an almost eliptical or lozenge pattern. I have found nothing like that especially looking at the Sevki Pasa maps*. Mule Transport Road maybe the Mule Lines as above.

So there are a lot of inconsistencies!

Howard

*While georeferencing the Sevki Pasa maps I noticed that although very detailed indeed, some features such as tracks, roads etc, were entirely missing, e.g. a large track near Scimitar Hill is shown on a number of maps but not the Sevki Pasa ones. This means the tracks on the sketch may simply be missing from the map. If so, there is an approximate fit of the original sketch with the left hand part of the camp.

[Sean Wood]

Thanks much appreciate your help.

I have received Henry Wade book but as its written by a third party, it does not contain any of Henry's memories, sketches or examples of his handwriting.

Also does not look llike he served in Macedonia.

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, Sean Wood said:

Thanks much appreciate your help.

I have received Henry Wade book but as its written by a third party, it does not contain any of Henry's memories, sketches or examples of his handwriting.

Also does not look llike he served in Macedonia.

Thats disappointing, looks like the following blurb,  for the recomendation is Bullsh*t

 

Sir Henry Wade Professorship, at the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh. Dugald Gardner's biography is painstaking and draws on Wade's own accounts, letters to understand his life, times, and work. Many photographs, paintings, sketches and drawings have been tracked down, to illustrate the great achievements of this many-sided creative Surgeon. Highly recommended.

 

[Sean Wood]

 

Hi Ray

The book is still interesting. I think I will contact the museum that holds his collection to see if they have any examples of his handwriting or sketches.

I will also try the Army museum to see if they have any more info on the Christmas card they have in their collection.

[Sean Wood]

Good evening All,

 

I have received a copy of Midwinters memoirs of the 32nd Field Ambulance today.

The mystery of Mr Wade is revealed on page 47.

S E Wade,  was a missionary from Canada attached to the 32nd.

The reference states that he was a good black and white artist and also made Christmas cards for the unit.

I have only flashed through the text, so look forward to reading the book in full.

 

[keithmroberts]

Lucky man. I have been searching for a copy of the MIdwinter book for some time. My interest is mainly about the unit's time in the Salonika Campaign, and last week I photographed that war diary at Kew.I'm still tidying up the images, as well as some other material that I photographed before I can settle down to explore the content. Congratulations again.

 

[Sean Wood]

Hi Keith,

 

I have a PDF copy, I got it from the Leeds University archive. I think I can share it as it do not think it has a copyright.

 

You are quite welcome to a copy.  My particular interest is the 32nd. would welcome your thoughts.

 

Regards 

 

Sean

[keithmroberts]

PM sent

 

Keith

[keithmroberts]

There's another memoir from 32  Field Ambulance. although it devotes only 6 or so pages to Gallipoli, and has much more on the unit's time in the Macedonian campaign. I'm going to attach partial pics of two pages, which will give a flavour. There are several short passages inserted by the editor as appendices, which reflect a limited knowledge of the army during the period, for example referring to the diary author joining the "Field Ambulance Corps", but the text is very interesting indeed, with short comments on the events of the day direct from the original diary of Samuel Thomas Pawley Wherley, described as Tom, who served as a Private 465070 in 32 FA throughout it's service overseas. He has a partial service record on Ancestry, (some pages refer to him as Pte T 1840).

The book is of fairly recent date, but hard to find and I feel fortunate to have traced a copy. Unfortunately the bind is very tight indeed, which makes photographing pages a challenge without wrecking the book.

 

Title:               Badge of Honour

Editor:            Godfrey A Gill

Publisher       Godfrey A Gill

Printed  Launceston Print Ltd. 2015

[keithmroberts]

On 03/12/2022 at 12:33, Sean Wood said:

I have received Henry Wade book but as its written by a third party, it does not contain any of Henry's memories, sketches or examples of his handwriting.

Also does not look llike he served in Macedonia.

I too have purchased a copy of the Gardner book on Sir Henry Wade, and interesting reading it made.  My main interest is on the Salonika Campaign, and there is no mention of him taking any part in the Medical Services of the Salonika campaign; (I can't find an officer's file), but Wikipedia states that he was made a member of the Serbian Order of the White Eagle. It's possible that a few gongs were awarded by the Serbians for other than those who took part in that campaign, but I shall try to discover more.

[keithmroberts]

I think I have traced a source for potentially a few copies of "Badge of Honour", which is the diary of Tom Wherby, who served in 32 FA throughout its time in Gallpoli and Macedonia.  It is not a unit history, much more a collection of his diary notes, which, although some other names are mentioned is very much a record of his own experience, food, pemperature, movements of the unit and the like as he felt about events. For those things, the experience of being a soldier  in these locations, (mostly  the Macedonian Front), this is a really interesting little book.

I don't know how many copies are available, bit they were listed at £7.95  and apart from postage I would be surprised if a higher price+postage is sought.  If anyone is interested in a copy, please pm me, and I will let them have the information once the stockist indicates whether they will deal with individual orders or prefer a single order for a few titles.

 

Keith

Edited 28 January , 2023 by keithmroberts

[Sean Wood]

On 28/11/2022 at 20:35, alantwo said:

The positions I've indicated on the images below are approximate, the subscription you have mentioned to Trench mapper in another topic/post may be more accurate. From the ADMS War Diary the 32nd FA appears to have landed at Suvla Point ('A') and established a station near the beach on 7th August 1915, though they moved 100 yards further inland within a day or so. On the 11th August the Field Ambulances were ordered to move to near Charak Cheshme ('B').  The War Diary records on 22nd August that they "Moved to a position near the sea, where the Salt Lake empties into the sea". This suggests somewhere near 'C' near the cut, possibly by the 53rd (Welsh) CCS. However, the cut runs east-west which doesn't correspond with the sketch plan above. Based upon the sketch I 'think' somewhere near 'D' might be an option as per the second image, but happy to hear others thoughts.

Alan

Good morning Alan,

I have now returned from Turkey and visited the positions indicated on your plan.  The hand drawn plan looks to be very close to position "C" . So your thoughts were virtually spot on.  I had the opportunity to visit with a local historian (Bill Sellars), He was an absolute mine of information. I will put together a summary of the visit.

thanks again for your interest and help.

Regards.

Sean

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

Page 47 shown above took my attention

"Four Enemy planes flew over the district 7 Jan 1916, one was brought down"

Claims that day appear incorrect

The new Ottoman 6th Aircraft Company Tayyare Boluk, was active during this period and made a number of claims around that date only one unknown on the 7 Jan 1916

A German ace, Croneiss, made a claim shot down a British Farman near El Sedd-ul-Bahr Gallipoli 7-1-16, no other details on who that was?

and shot down a RNAS Voisin III (8502) with Bremner/Burnaby near Cape Hellas 8-1-16 the next day?

The famous Buddecke made a claim of a RNAS No 3 Wing Farman by Lt Busk (KIA) East of Jalova 6-1-16, and or

a French Farman (942) with Lt Lecomte (KIA) of Escadrille MF 98T near Helles 9-1-16 

So take your pick

S.B

[alantwo]

On 04/03/2023 at 02:49, Sean Wood said:

Good morning Alan,

I have now returned from Turkey and visited the positions indicated on your plan.  The hand drawn plan looks to be very close to position "C" . So your thoughts were virtually spot on.  I had the opportunity to visit with a local historian (Bill Sellars), He was an absolute mine of information. I will put together a summary of the visit.

thanks again for your interest and help.

Regards.

Sean

Hi Sean

Thanks for letting me know. I'd like to see your summary in due course if that's okay.

Regards

Alan