Black Watch Officer's upper left arm badge / insignia help

[19141918noble]

More help if possible for colourising a photograph of group of 9/Black Watch officers (A Company March 1918).

Three are sporting a badge on their left upper arm. Can anyone tell me what these denoted and what colour they were?

Any assistance most appreciated.

Chris 

[Alan24]

It looks like a silhouette of a thistle used as divisional insignia. 

9th Highland Division used a Thistle but that was a dark blue circle with silver Thistle. 

[19141918noble]

Thanks Alan

9/Black Watch were part of 15^th (Scottish) Division. These three officers might have been with other BW battalions but attached to 9/BW?

Chris

[6RRF]

3 hours ago, Alan24 said:

It looks like a silhouette of a thistle used as divisional insignia. 

9th Highland Division used a Thistle but that was a dark blue circle with silver Thistle. 

More exactly, it was a metal thistle badge set on a circular blue patch. I've not seen this one before but it looks like a dark blue cloth thistle, perhaps earlier than the metal thistle

[6RRF]

The divisional sight for the 15th [Scottish] Division was a red triangle or more exactly a Scotch - a wedge used to raise things like gun barrels. It was, obviously, a pun and in no way could it mutate into the thistle badge seen in the photie 

[Alan24]

7 minutes ago, 6RRF said:

The divisional sight for the 15th [Scottish] Division was a red triangle or more exactly a Scotch - a wedge used to raise things like gun barrels. It was, obviously, a pun and in no way could it mutate into the thistle badge seen in the photie 

Perhaps the three men in question could be from the 8th Black Watch  who were 9th Division.

[TullochArd]

......... I was also fascinated to see a tiny BW cap badge worn by all just below the hackle.  Is this a Battalion fad rather than a Regimental decision?

 

 

Edited 26 November , 2022 by TullochArd

[Anorak]

hi the black watch in ww1 had a small bronze cap badge i have only ever seen one for sale in many years of collecting john

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, TullochArd said:

......... I was also fascinated to see a tiny BW cap badge worn by all just below the hackle.  Is this a Battalion fad rather than a Regimental decision?

 

 

Apparently they were used by some BW battalions (including the regular 1st) to secure the bottom of the hackle in place.  Other battalions favoured a regimental button instead, but using one, or other of the two was very common.  The 9th clearly followed the same practice as the 1st. 

 I suspect that the cloth thistle was a battalion idiosyncrasy.  Forum member @poona guardwill probably advise, and might well be grateful for an electronic copy of the photograph.

Afternote:  Apparently the 9th Black Watch did wear a black cloth thistle as an arm badge during the “Arras Offensive” in 1917.

Edited 26 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Tawhiri]

10 hours ago, 19141918noble said:

Three are sporting a badge on their left upper arm.

The only two individuals not sporting the badge are the two on the left of the photograph. The office in the centre of the bottom row is also wearing the badge, as is the officer directly behind him. You can just see the outline of the badge in silhouette on both of their shoulders because they are square onto the camera, rather than turned in towards the centre like the other three individuals on the right.

[poona guard]

The small badge was adopted as a fasterner for the hackle when worn by officers and WOs. The bade on the shoulder is in black and was adopted for use on 9.4.17 during the Arras offensive. See P226/7 of The Badges of Kitchener's Army, Pen&Sword 2018. I would please like a copy of the photo to use in Volume 4 of the series of badge books.

[19141918noble]

Thanks all for much appreciated help.

Chris