MrEd Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 As per title, got given these recently. 2 are the same and marked ‘60lber lumber wagon 1917’ and what I assume is a makers mark. Some sort of fuze, she’ll or other storage? Has a notch cut in the bottom of both boxes and a black line across it widthways anyone able to give me further information or a photo of them in context? thanks ed Some more 3rd one is dated 1915 on the hinges and the hinge is made by the British Ericsson company - has what looks to be a broad arrow on the front. Some sort of telephone equipment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 On some British field guns, the ammunition was carried in the limber on trays each carrying a pair of shells. These trays were usually made of metal. However, tools and spares were also carried in place of some of these tray compartments and it is possible the first set of boxes are these types of container. The size of 60-pdr shell was 5" x 19" and it would be interesting to know the internal diameter of the wooden boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 13 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2022 3 hours ago, Spaceman said: On some British field guns, the ammunition was carried in the limber on trays each carrying a pair of shells. These trays were usually made of metal. However, tools and spares were also carried in place of some of these tray compartments and it is possible the first set of boxes are these types of container. The size of 60-pdr shell was 5" x 19" and it would be interesting to know the internal diameter of the wooden boxes. Box is 10 1/4 wide x 20 inches long x 5 inches deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 Definitely wooden trays for a 60-pdr ammunition limber or wagon as can be seen in the attached pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Spaceman said: Definitely wooden trays for a 60-pdr ammunition limber or wagon as can be seen in the attached pic. Yes you’re bang on the money. The specific, oblong box can be identified via its leather carriage strap design, it’s situated top centre and second box down. Edited 13 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 13 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2022 Superb thanks @FROGSMILE @Spaceman one is in better condition than the other with what appear to be original paint - both are sound. Do you have any details of the contents or internals? They both appear to have some dividers that have been removed. Also I am assuming the leather strap was to stop it falling out of the limber? i would like to put one back to ‘as used’ standard if possible, i looked at them more closely and 1 is 1916 and the other 1917. The 1917 being slightly better. any ideas on the third box though? thanks ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MrEd said: Superb thanks @FROGSMILE @Spaceman one is in better condition than the other with what appear to be original paint - both are sound. Do you have any details of the contents or internals? They both appear to have some dividers that have been removed. Also I am assuming the leather strap was to stop it falling out of the limber? i would like to put one back to ‘as used’ standard if possible, i looked at them more closely and 1 is 1916 and the other 1917. The 1917 being slightly better. any ideas on the third box though? thanks ed Can’t help with the third box, but @ianjonesnclmight have an idea. The box with the leather carrying strap seems the only one fitted for carriage in that way, which suggests it may have held something like fuze keys or a clinometer, that together could be carried to the gun, but that’s just my speculation. Edited 13 November , 2022 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 I am assuming they are 'Tray Spare Parts' as shown below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 4 minutes ago, Spaceman said: I am assuming they are 'Tray Spare Parts' as shown below. That makes sense I think and chimes with the need to be able to carry it via the leather strap handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 13 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2022 There doesn’t appear to be any evidence of a lid - no screw holes or evidence of hinges on either of them, so I am not convinced on the handle for carrying - it looks more to me like a ‘drawer handle’ for pulling out of the limber to get to the contents? of course what I don’t know is if whatever was stored in these trays was retained by clips or leather straps etc - so I guess it could be carried by that leather handle with no ‘lid’ if the contents were strapped or held in place with something? interesting, thanks for the comments gents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 20 minutes ago, MrEd said: There doesn’t appear to be any evidence of a lid - no screw holes or evidence of hinges on either of them, so I am not convinced on the handle for carrying - it looks more to me like a ‘drawer handle’ for pulling out of the limber to get to the contents? of course what I don’t know is if whatever was stored in these trays was retained by clips or leather straps etc - so I guess it could be carried by that leather handle with no ‘lid’ if the contents were strapped or held in place with something? interesting, thanks for the comments gents You make an excellent point and looking at its design I think that you’re probably right that the strap was effectively a drawer handle. It explains why it’s quite flush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 13 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2022 I don’t know though, that’s just speculation on my part. Hopefully a photo will turn up of one with ‘stuff’ on it to answer all out questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 (edited) The third box is a "battery" box to hold Leclanche type batteries to power signals equipment, in particular telegraphy equipment. Each cell in the box holds a single 1.5 volt battery. These are wired in series and to the connection on the box. The slots in the side are to fit the box into a frame on the wagon. Edited 13 November , 2022 by Chasemuseum incorrect information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Posted 13 November , 2022 Share Posted 13 November , 2022 3 hours ago, MrEd said: I don’t know though, that’s just speculation on my part. Hopefully a photo will turn up of one with ‘stuff’ on it to answer all out questions! My assumption is that these boxes are just trays and the leather handle is there just to allow it to pulled out and probably laid on the ground to allow the contents in the form of spares to be removed when required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 14 November , 2022 Share Posted 14 November , 2022 Regards box #3 the battery box, two were sold at auction earlier this year https://bid.candtauctions.co.uk/m/lot-details/index/catalog/114/lot/37638?url=%2Fm%2Fview-auctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F114%3Fpage%3D2%26view%3Dgrid%26sale%3Dundefined%26cat%3D41%26catm%3Dany%26order%3Dorder_num%26xclosed%3Dno%26featured%3Dno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chasemuseum Posted 14 November , 2022 Share Posted 14 November , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spaceman said: My assumption is that these boxes are just trays and the leather handle is there just to allow it to pulled out and probably laid on the ground to allow the contents in the form of spares to be removed when required. Agree This is the ammunition wagon/limber set, with the photo above of the limber. The ammunition wagon box does not have any trays. Edited 14 November , 2022 by Chasemuseum typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 @Chasemuseum thank you, I thought they were just trays aswell. also re: the third box thank you, it’s devoid of fittings but very well made. I thought it was something of that ilk just wasn’t sure what. Great stuff, although looking at that auction I should probably not use it for bits and bobs in the garage! thank you, couple of nice little items that I am surprised have survived tbh, I would have though they would have gone on the fire etc in the intervening 100 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Posted 14 November , 2022 Share Posted 14 November , 2022 It amazes me that these spares trays have survived all this time - quite a find and I will certainly be looking out for one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spaceman said: It amazes me that these spares trays have survived all this time - quite a find and I will certainly be looking out for one! If you want one of them you are welcome, PM me Edited 14 November , 2022 by MrEd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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