How to read a Naval Service Record (Henry Bertie Morgan)

[the_ageing_young_rebel]

Hello Everybody

            I've done my fair share of WW1 army research in my time and feel that I can understand those records fairly well. What I'm struggling with is reading the comparitivly sparse Naval records of my Great Grandfather Henry Bertie Morgan. 

            From what I can read on the attached doc, it seems that he was an old sailor by the time that the Great War started, but it appears he served the majority of the war on HMS Erin (if so this would put him at Jutland). What I can't decipher is what is listed as his Charactor and what is in the "Discharged, Whither, and for what Cause" column. Also under "Wounds, Scars, Marks" it reads "Crossed flags l arm", I assume this may be a tattoo?

            Would anybody more knowlegdeable about these documents be kind enough to help he read this document, and maybe even point me in the direction of where I could find more about Bertie? I already have an ancestory page for him here https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/10841949/person/-311346897/facts

             Thanks in advance for any help!

 

 

[RNCVR]

@the_ageing_young_rebel

Well, first off I can tell you Bertie had some conduct difficulties during his RN service.  He did 2 stints in cells & was reduced to the 2nd class for Conduct on 2 occasions,

His first stint in cells from 16 to 31 Mar '03 & 9 to 20 Aug '04.  Those are noted in the "If Discharged" etc column.

The offences are not noted(they never are unless of a very serious nature or punishment by Warrant) but he would have committed some infraction of the myriad of rules & regs that affected the everyday life of RN ratings.  Drunkenness was very common in his day, perhaps he had a problem with drink, or a problem(s) obeying orders from superiors.  In any event during his cell time he would suffer loss of pay, loss of leave, loss of daily tot (rum ration), & be required to perform some form of menial punishment(s) during his time in the 2nd class for conduct.  Any time in cells reduced his pension time for the time he was confined.

Bertie never progressed beyond AB (Able Seaman) during his career, either by choice, or as a result of his conduct. He did clean up his act, eventually qualifying for his 3rd GCB (Good Conduct badge) on 25 Feb '18 (2nd sheet in "Badges" column).  Ratings rec'd additional pay per day for each GCB awarded, which was an incentive for them to try to keep out of trouble.  He had been Deprived of his 1st GCB on 21 Jan '10 & had it restored  6 months later on 22 July '10 . His 2nd GCB was awarded 21 July '12. (1st sheet "Badges" column)

In the "Sub Ratings" column it is noted that he qualified as a SG (Seaman Gunner)  in '05 & again in '11.

He was released on 20 Sept '13 upon completion of his 1st period of engagement(12 yrs), entering the RFR (Royal Fleet Reserve) on 21 Sep '13 & was mobilized on 2 Aug '14 for 1WW (2nd sheet), again being demobilized 6 Mar '19.

Bertie re-entered briefly (possibly for RFR training) on 16 Apl to 5 Jun '21.

Hope that assists you somewhat.....

Best w...Bryan

[RNCVR]

PS - Very nice photo of Bertie, might you have any of him in uniform??

[the_ageing_young_rebel]

1 minute ago, RNCVR said:

PS - Very nice photo of Bertie, might you have any of him in uniform??

Thanks! Thats really interesting stuff and definatly asks some more interesting questions.

I don't have any of him in uniform unfortunatly, only one as a child, and a few of him as an older man.

[horatio2]

30 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Bertie re-entered briefly (possibly for RFR training) on 16 Apl to 5 Jun '21.

He was mobilsed from the RFR between those dates as part of a wider mobilisation in response to the 1921 strike by UK coal miners.

[RNCVR]

43 minutes ago, the_ageing_young_rebel said:

Thanks! Thats really interesting stuff and definatly asks some more interesting questions.

Always lots of those mate!  If anymore concerning his service ask away, we will try to assist you!

[the_ageing_young_rebel]

3 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Always lots of those mate!  If anymore concerning his service ask away, we will try to assist you!

Thanks again! When you said he was a "SG (Seaman Gunner)" do you think that means he would have been working with the gunnery team? 

And do you think the "Crossed flags L arm" might be a tattoo?

And the last question for now; Are these types of records all that existed for Navy men? I was wondering if there was any other offical Navy docs concerning him I might be able to search for.

Thanks

[RNCVR]

1. Yes, he was a Gunnery rating & would be part of one (or more) of the Ship's various calibre gun crews.

2. Yes again, likely a tattoo, dont know the significance of the crossed flags as he was not a part of the Signals branch. Likely got it prior to entry.

3. You likely have it all, the RN ADM series is not as detailed as Army records.  Basically ADM 188 is a pay record, recording what the rating was paid for ----

ie: his rank/rate progression, additional qualifications ( ie: Diver, Bugler), CGB's Awarded, Deprived & Restored, time on various ships, bases, depots, bases (gunnery, torpedo schools), including hospital time, cell time, 2nd class for conduct time, they were paid (or lost pay) for all of these things. Also War Service gratuities received, & Prize Fund payments post war(if any).

[seaJane]

16 hours ago, the_ageing_young_rebel said:

HMS Erin (if so this would put him at Jutland).

He may have bumped into my great-great-uncle George Lewis RMA in that case, also in ERIN at Jutland .

[the_ageing_young_rebel]

16 hours ago, RNCVR said:

1. Yes, he was a Gunnery rating & would be part of one (or more) of the Ship's various calibre gun crews.

2. Yes again, likely a tattoo, dont know the significance of the crossed flags as he was not a part of the Signals branch. Likely got it prior to entry.

3. You likely have it all, the RN ADM series is not as detailed as Army records.  Basically ADM 188 is a pay record, recording what the rating was paid for ----

ie: his rank/rate progression, additional qualifications ( ie: Diver, Bugler), CGB's Awarded, Deprived & Restored, time on various ships, bases, depots, bases (gunnery, torpedo schools), including hospital time, cell time, 2nd class for conduct time, they were paid (or lost pay) for all of these things. Also War Service gratuities received, & Prize Fund payments post war(if any).

Thats great. Thanks so much for helping with this. Every little bit of information about him is valuable.

[the_ageing_young_rebel]

6 hours ago, seaJane said:

He may have bumped into my great-great-uncle George Lewis RMA in that case, also in ERIN at Jutland .

Maybe. I always wish we could find the friends of these men just to flesh out the personal details of their lives a little more