Lieut Cyril Norman Seedhouse

[thedawnpatrol]

could someone more familiar with these records please give me a potted 'service history' of Seedhouse.

i believe he was in the R A very early on, as i have his 1914 Mons Star.

Thank you

AIR-76-452-81.pdf

[thedawnpatrol]

i found his photo on the RAC records

 

seedhouse.pdf

[Tawhiri]

According to the medal rolls he was a corporal with the Royal Engineers, with a first entry into a theatre of war on 16 August 1914 when he earned his 1914 Star. He also appears on the Royal Engineers' medal rolls as an acting Sergeant for the issuing of his British War and Victory Medals, with a note that he was commissioned on 19 July 1915 with the RFC. Interestingly, his medal index card notes that the latter were to be issued by the Air Ministry.

His commissioning record from the Gazette suggests he was with the Motorcyclist Section of the Royal Engineers when he was commissioned in 1915.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29261/supplement/8004

His RAF casualty form gives a little more information on his earlier career, apparently being posted to 9 Squadron after completing his flying training in 1915, before being wounded on 5 March 1916.

https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/21536

http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/seedhouse-c.n

http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/7000257774-seedhouse-c.n

The 1 April 1918 RAF muster roll has him as a staff officer so possibly his wounding in March 1916 meant he couldn't return to an active flying role. He certainly has at least one pension claim post-war.

http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/7000230229-seedhouse-c

http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/seedhouse-c

Edited to add that a search of the British Newspaper Archive for "Cyril Seedhouse" produces a long list of newspaper accounts of the action in which he was wounded in March 1916.

Edited 8 November , 2022 by Tawhiri

[thedawnpatrol]

Thank you Tawhiri, that’s excellent info.

just to round this off here is his medals in my collection, not the best photo as they are behind glass, now i have better information, i will replace the placard.

 

[Tawhiri]

I’m assuming that you are also aware of his pre-war athletic career, which included winning a bronze medal at the 1912 Stockholm Olympics as part of the British 4 x 400-metre relay team.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Seedhouse

Edited 8 November , 2022 by Tawhiri

[thedawnpatrol]

No, i did not know that…….how interesting, thank you

[charlie962]

In a 1922 report he is taken to court by his wife for assault. The report mentions he spent a couple of months in a hospital for neurasthenia after his wounding.

 

[thedawnpatrol]

ah, we would now label that as PTSD.............

[charlie962]

Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News 11/7/14 via Findmypast newspapers:

Edited 9 November , 2022 by charlie962

[thedawnpatrol]

Just to round this enquiry off, and as always i’m very grateful for the great font of knowledge on this forum, here is my now completed display frame to Lieut Seedhouse, and a general view of my “wall of honor’

 

[charlie962]

That is an impressive and important collection. Thank you for continuing to share it with us.

Charlie 

[thedawnpatrol]

Thank you Charlie,  one of my aims is to try and find a photo of as many of them as i can.............not an easy task............i have the Royal Aero Club photos, but as we know not all were members, and certainly not the observers........

best

 

Julian.

[Tawhiri]

His observer on the flight when he was wounded in April 1916 was 2/Lieutenant Hugh Bertram Hamilton Cox, who was originally commissioned with the RFA on 27 October 1915 before transferring to the RFC. It's not clear when he transferred to the RFC, his secondment was only posted in the Gazette effective from 1 May 1916, which is after the date of the engagement he fought with Cyril Seedhouse. According to his casualty form he looks to have first served on 9 Squadron, before transferring to 34 Squadron on 31 July 1916, and then being sent to Home Establishment on 15 October 1916. Given he was then killed in a flying accident at Netheravon while under instruction on 29 January 1917 on Farman S11 Shorthorn, serial number A953, this was presumably for training as a pilot. His medal index card only shows entitlement to the British War and Victory Medals, with his medals being claimed by his father.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29340/page/10518

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29583/page/4853

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1109826

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8249917

https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/4340

http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/cox-h.b.h.-hugh-bertram-hamilton

http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/cox-h.b.h

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/3066986/h-b-h-cox/

[topgun1918]

According editions of to the Army List (as they pertain to the RFC), H B H Cox transferred to the RFC on 27 October 1915; he was appointed a Flying Officer (Observer) on 1 May 1916 and seconded to the RFC effective from that date.

Graeme

 

[FionaBam]

On 14/11/2022 at 11:08, thedawnpatrol said:

Thank you Charlie,  one of my aims is to try and find a photo of as many of them as i can.............not an easy task............i have the Royal Aero Club photos, but as we know not all were members, and certainly not the observers........

best

 

Julian.

May I ask where else , other than Aero Club archives , you look for photos of army servicemen seconded to the RFC as Observers ?

I am cheekily copying and pasting my post submitted just now in case it should interest you:

Secondment to which RFC Squadron 

How can I find out which RFC Squadron my grandfather Frederick Edward Arthur Bambridge was seconded to as an Observer in 1916 whilst serving in the 6th Wiltshire Regiment?

Would there be any records of his flights? 

From AIR 1/97/15/9/269 “Reports and Particulars of RNAS officers' services A-B”. I have a summary of Freddy's service which was created on 5/12/1917 the day after he joined RNAS 2 in Dunkirk.

 It states:

"Active Service: Observer RFC January/March 1916.” 

Below under “Outstanding Features “  it states “ 2 years in Wiltshire Infantry” and “Observer in R.F.C. January/March 1916” 

Freddy’s Army service dates are: 5/10/1914 Attestation – 12/11/1918- Army rescinded his Commission due to Freddy being deemed medically unfit for service and discharged him honourably; they permitted him to retain his rank of Lieutenant. The cause of medical unfitness was due to Freddy being shot down whilst flying in RNAS 2 on 22.03.1918. 

Puzzling why I cannot locate a Gazette record of this secondment, though have seen plenty of others Gazetted as Seconded to RFC.

 .....................

 

Cheers

 

[FionaBam]

On 14/11/2022 at 19:33, topgun1918 said:

According editions of to the Army List (as they pertain to the RFC), H B H Cox transferred to the RFC on 27 October 1915; he was appointed a Flying Officer (Observer) on 1 May 1916 and seconded to the RFC effective from that date.

Graeme

 

Oh my goodness ! You have got the Army  list?!

Could you possibly advise me if my grandfather is listed there?

Frederick Edward Arthur Bambridge 

ADM shows he was  seconded from his 6th  Wiltshire regiment to RFC January 1916- April 1916.

His WO339 file at Kew says nothing about this  probably because the papers related to his secondment ( described by C.Jefford in his book as the A Lf ..something sections , cant find where I read it)  were lost in the bombings of WW2 London.

Thank you !

Fiona 

 

[topgun1918]

Hi Fiona

I have PDF copies of the Army List from January 1913 to December 1919 and have begun extracting the pages that apply to the RFC.  Unfortunately the search function seems to be a bit hit and miss so it's a case of going through each page individually.  I regret to say that so far your grandfather's name is conspicuous by its absence.  I'll keep looking and report back any findings.

Graeme

  

[FionaBam]

12 minutes ago, topgun1918 said:

Hi Fiona

I have PDF copies of the Army List from January 1913 to December 1919 and have begun extracting the pages that apply to the RFC.  Unfortunately the search function seems to be a bit hit and miss so it's a case of going through each page individually.  I regret to say that so far your grandfather's name is conspicuous by its absence.  I'll keep looking and report back any findings.

Graeme

  

Thank you so much Graeme! Much appreciated. 

Fingers crossed...

Fiona 

[FionaBam]

2 hours ago, topgun1918 said:

Hi Fiona

I have PDF copies of the Army List from January 1913 to December 1919 and have begun extracting the pages that apply to the RFC.  Unfortunately the search function seems to be a bit hit and miss so it's a case of going through each page individually.  I regret to say that so far your grandfather's name is conspicuous by its absence.  I'll keep looking and report back any findings.

Graeme

  

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/91519313

 

Just found these online.

 

Same thing  as your PDF??

[topgun1918]

Yes, they're the ones; they are downloadable in .pdf format so can be viewed using a reader such as Adobe Acrobat.  I've been plodding through the 1916 lists and F E A Bambridge is listed up to October then is not named in November, consistent with him having been invalided out; in the October 1916 list he is still shown as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Duke of Edinburgh's Wiltshire Regiment, 6th (Service) Battalion and so far I've not come across a reference to a secondment or attachment to the RFC.  The only reference I have come across to service with the RFC is in his Admiralty file (ADM-273-17-75) which gives his service as 'RFA October 1914 to April 1915' and 'Wilts Regt April 1915 to 12 October 1916'; the annotation 'RFC Jan1916 - April 1916' appears almost as an afterthought.

Graeme

   

[FionaBam]

8 minutes ago, topgun1918 said:

Yes, they're the ones; they are downloadable in .pdf format so can be viewed using a reader such as Adobe Acrobat.  I've been plodding through the 1916 lists and F E A Bambridge is listed up to October then is not named in November, consistent with him having been invalided out; in the October 1916 list he is still shown as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Duke of Edinburgh's Wiltshire Regiment, 6th (Service) Battalion and so far I've not come across a reference to a secondment or attachment to the RFC.  The only reference I have come across to service with the RFC is in his Admiralty file (ADM-273-17-75) which gives his service as 'RFA October 1914 to April 1915' and 'Wilts Regt April 1915 to 12 October 1916'; the annotation 'RFC Jan1916 - April 1916' appears almost as an afterthought.

Graeme

   

Thank you a million for all that work. I shall try that method too . It was goggbldeegook the way I was viewing it.

 

So Freddy is listed Jan - Oct 1916 as 6th Wiltshire . That is correct from his WO339 file.

The ADM record- thanks and I see your point that the  RFC is squeezed in there- but then it's all squashed up ! . Mike

@MikeW did a Snip attaching it below 

The other reason I am pursuing the RFC service record for Freddy is I have visited his grave at Goodwood and his headstone has RFC in large decorative letters. I knew Freddys nephew's wife and it was she and Michael ( the nephew) who knew Freddy in last few years of his life. So it's odd for both ADM and the headstone to both be wrong....but not impossible. 

I have just miraculously accessed Find My Past for free ( I hope so anyway!) And downloaded from Hart's Quarterly Army Lists 1917 through 1919 the records where Freddy comes up . Didnt show me anything for Freddy in 1916. Odd.

 

Thank you again Graeme . Very kind of you.

Best wishes for sunny skies where you are 

Fiona 

[Matlock1418]

4 hours ago, FionaBam said:

Frederick Edward Arthur Bambridge 

??? Fliers - Not my field really, but ...

This casualty card at the RAF Museum/StoryVault https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/7000236410-bambridge-f.e.a has him as RNAS 1/Wing , Squadron 2  on 4/5.4.18 = ???

Image thanks to RAF Museum/StoryVault

If you use their search facility there are also two 1.4.18 listing as A&S / Aeroplane & Seaplane

Perhaps this injury lead to a disability pension claim = ???

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

M

Edited 10 April , 2023 by Matlock1418

[FionaBam]

4 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

??? Fliers - Not my field really, but ...

This casualty card at the RAF Museum/StoryVault https://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/7000236410-bambridge-f.e.a has him as RNAS 1/Wing , Squadron 2  on 4/5.4.18 = ???

Image thanks to RAF Museum/StoryVault

If you use their search facility there are also two 1.4.18 listing as A&S / Aeroplane & Seaplane

Perhaps this injury lead to a disability pension claim = ???

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

M

Thank you very much Matlock . You clearly manage flyers just as well as those in the fields ...a poor- taste pun .

Actually I have those records and  I dont know if he got a Disability Pension . BUT- I have seen evidence in Freddys WO339 file that he was awarded a pension - and presumed everyone got one... oh my lord..as I type I feel soooo  foolish.! What rubbish ! If only they had all received a War Office Pension...then not such awful harsh experiences for demobbed soldiers sailors and all the others in the 1920s.

Freddy walked with a limp for life but worked in various jobs including flying in WW2.

Cheers 

Fiona 

[FionaBam]

9 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Fiona - Not quite correct, relying on memory but I think it says 8th Wiltshire seconded to 6th Wiltshire - certainly in the February 1916 Army List he comes under 8th Battalion Wiltshire Reg. 

 

matlock - the RAF Casualty Card covers an incident in 1918 - this topic is about Jan to Mar 1916

 

Sorry to all if I'm getting grumpier and grumpier but it is so difficult keeping this thread  "On Topic"

Hi Mike

 

Sorry to all .

I am confusing everybody by jumping in on other peoples threads. this isnt my thread with question about Secondment to RFC for Freddy

But couldn't resist as-

 

I noticed Graeme has the Army Lists that I wanted to see after the note in C.G.Jeffords book. 

I ll try to improve !

Thanks

Fiona 

[topgun1918]

While the RAF Casualty Card has the report dated 5 April 1918, the full text from ADM-273-17-75 reads: Telegram Dunkirk 23.3.18 - Seriously wounded 22nd inst.  Dunkirk 23.3.18:- Full report of D.H.4 A.7665, whilst escorting a W/T Spotting M/C on 22nd inst, this M/C was shot down, crashing this side of lines near Pervyse.  Pilot sustained compound fracture of both bones of both lower legs, fracture R. thigh, condition serious but good.  Removed to Ocean Hos, La Panne.  P2[?] cas: 16/4/18.  Transferred to England 4/4/18.   

Back on topic - looks like he moved from the 8th Battalion to the 6th Battalion in May/June; he is 8th Battalion in the May 1916 Army List, then 6th Battalion thereafter.

Graeme