Sgt Stripes Posted 4 November , 2022 Share Posted 4 November , 2022 I have just read the book The Ship that hunted itself by Colin Simpson,, and I would like to know How accurate is the Battle description in the book between the CARMANlA and the CAP TRAFALGAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 4 November , 2022 Share Posted 4 November , 2022 (edited) In the Appendix to the book there is a sworn account of the action given to the Admiralty Prize Court in 1916 which outlines the basic facts, so that’s a good yardstick to fact check what Simpson is describing more comprehensively. And although he wasn’t an actual eye witness to the events, and the book was written many years later, Simpson was a respected and accomplished naval history author (and former Journalist) and the book appears to be well researched. Therefore I have no reason to question its fundamental accuracy - but were there any aspects of whats been written about that particularly trouble you? MB Edited 4 November , 2022 by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Stripes Posted 4 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 4 November , 2022 None really its just an action I can not find a great deal about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 4 November , 2022 Share Posted 4 November , 2022 21 minutes ago, Sgt Stripes said: None really its just an action I can not find a great deal about. This action came up just recently on another thread, and I again recommend the link here - Most computers will cope with translating the text to English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February On 04/11/2022 at 17:08, michaeldr said: This action came up just recently on another thread, and I again recommend the link here - Most computers will cope with translating the text to English Unfortunately that link no longer works. I have a set of medals that I believe belonged to a Steward who fought in that action, he was a member of the ships crew at the outbreak of the war and after it. It's an interesting and well decorated action. If anybody has some good info on it and the voyages HMS Carmania sailed after I'd appreciate some good pointers. I know she became a troopship around 1916, and I think she took part in the Gallipoli/Dardanelles campaign as well, but I'm not finding a huge ammount so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February (edited) Soon after the outbreak of World War I, the Cunard passenger liner RMS Carmania was requisitioned by the Royal Navy for service as an armed merchant cruiser. HMS Carmania saw early action in a naval duel with the German ‘Cap Trafalgar’ (already discussed) and after battle-damage repairs in Gibraltar, the ship operated off the coast of Lisbon and in the sea area surrounding the Canary Islands. She carried guns and ammunition out from Gibraltar to Mudros in mid-May 1915, after which she returned to Plymouth for refit, then resumed her previous station with the 9th Cruiser Squadron. The ship ceased Royal Naval service in May/June 1916, and became a troopship for remainder of the war, transporting Canadian and later American troops across the Atlantic. http://ssmaritime.com/Carmania-1905.htm MB PS There were approx. 28 stewards employed on Carmania during her wartime service as an AMC. Edited 26 February by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Cheers bud, there is some good info there. Now, where would I find the RN/war time crew lists? My guy is on the crew list of the Carmania prior to WW1 and then he disappears until the 1920s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Royal Navy did not keep crew lists I'm afraid. Her RN log books and a couple of reports are here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/2?_q=Carmania adm&_p=1900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Here are her passenger lists as SS CARMANIA 1916-1919 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/3?_q=Carmania bt&_dss=range&_sd=1916&_ed=1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Thanks for that, gives me something to do for the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Not sure that they can be downloaded, but if you can get to Kew it certainly will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Oh yeah.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February 5 hours ago, TDS said: I have a set of medals that I believe belonged to a Steward What medals exactly? Does the set include a 1914/15 Star? If so then it’s likely that he signed a T.124 Agreement and chose to remain with the ship after it was taken into RN service (1914-16). What’s written on the rim - do the letters ‘MFA’ appear after his name? MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February The usual 3, so yes the 1914-15 Star, plus the war and victory medal. All named to F E Spicer MFA. Francis Edward Spicer, from Rock Ferry, Liverpool/Birkenhead born 1898. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February I can only find an Albert Grosvenor Spicer from Rock Ferry but will try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February There's plenty on him on Ancestry, but no info on his MFA service, he was crew on the Carminia before the war, and apparently served on her during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February The fact he qualified for a 1914/15 Star strongly suggests that he must have been part of Carmania’s crew during the time that the ship was in RN service. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February My thoughts as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February He’s on the MMR medal roll, but I can’t locate a medal card for him in TNA. SPICER, Francis E., Ast. Std., 666692 MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February Free BDM have him as birth registered 3rd / 1897 in Birkenhead And his death registered in Sept 1971 in Liverpool, which also gives his DoB as 29/07/1897 Hth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February (edited) Absolutely bang on, I managed to chase some info down earlier on. Any idea how I trace T124 Crew Agreement's? Edited 27 February by TDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February Sorry, no. I can only do the easy stuff :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February 😎😎😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 28 February Share Posted 28 February These don't add much, but the photo matches. BillyH. Above from Birkenhead News 8th April 1916 Birkenhead News 4th August 1917 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDS Posted 28 February Share Posted 28 February That's brilliant, thank you, I never think to look for Newspaper articles.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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