The National War Memorials Committee, 31 Edward Street, Nelson, Lancs

[Martin A Jones]

Does anyone know anything about the above company? I have receipt from them for £13 in respect of a memorial of some kind. Any idea what they were selling? Does anybody have any examples of their products? Were they genuine or charlatans?

Thanks

 

[busterfield]

Googling "national war memorials committee" gives a couple of PDFs from New Zealand.

[brianmorris547]

Edward St is not in the town centre. Streetview shows a white painted stone terrace house with a sky dish at the rear. Nothing to indicate any kind of a business.

Brian

[Gunner 87]

Hi Martin. I'm sure you have checked but if not, there is no trace on the Companies House register. Gunner 87

[Martin A Jones]

Thanks for all your thoughts.  The receipt is dated March 1920 and includes a hand written agreement to supply some type of memorial including the words to be included on it.  As the soldier was buried in France I assume it was something for the home or to go on a family grave. Hoping that someone was aware of the company and what they were producing.

[Gunner 87]

4 minutes ago, Martin A Jones said:

Thanks for all your thoughts.  The receipt is dated March 1920 and includes a hand written agreement to supply some type of memorial including the words to be included on it.  As the soldier was buried in France I assume it was something for the home or to go on a family grave. Hoping that someone was aware of the company and what they were producing.

My apologies Martin. I was under the impression your receipt was new and that you were concerned about the company  no wonder it's not at Companies House!!!

[busterfield]

Could you post the receipt for all to see ?

[DavidOwen]

I suspect something amiss as this is the address in the 1921 census (courtesy FMP)

[busterfield]

1 minute ago, DavidOwen said:

I suspect something amiss as his is the address in the 1921 census (courtesy FMP)

That's the reason I asked for the receipt to be posted.

[DavidOwen]

A quick reverse check on CWGC doesn't give any relevant results on either a casualty named Bottom or to the address 31 Edward Street, Nelson Lancs. (Of course someone else could have lived there prior to 1921)

However, the 1921 census is incorrectly indexed as the surname (according to 1911 census) is actually Winterbottom, although they were living at a different address then. A further search on CWGC has also come up negative.

Not much luck yet on identifying who was at 31 Edward Street in 1911.

[Martin A Jones]

The receipt in question.  On the reverse are some handwritten details of the soldier concerned.  This was to his mother who seems to have paid £13 and two shillings for something.  I wondered exactly what for not a small amount of money.

 

[DavidOwen]

I suspect this may have been a con. The only reference to a National War Memorial/s Committee in FMP newspapers refer to a Scottish (or Irish) one.

However I would have expected reports of criminal proceedings if the culprit/s were caught, nothing found.

Can you give a more specific dates and the soldier's details?

[DavidOwen]

J. Winters / James Winterbottom 31 Edward Street Nelson in 1921 census?

[Martin A Jones]

1 hour ago, DavidOwen said:

J. Winters / James Winterbottom 31 Edward Street Nelson in 1921 census?

The soldier was from Northampton and died in 1917.  There were lots of adult males in the household, two of which had been serving soldiers and I can't believe that the mother would have been conned out of that much money unless the hoax was very good.  I also did a FMP newspaper search around Northants and a search through the nationals but could find nothing except the unrelated row over the Edinburgh memorial - I was hoping to locate an advert for the company.  I also looked for any reports of criminal proceedings up to 1929, again nothing.

I am intrigued as to what was purchased. I wonder whether it was some sort of personalised memorial for a photograph. One of my great aunts had something similar (for a different soldier) and it used to fascinate me as a child in the early 1960's.  I had to sit on a hard chair for what seemed hours while the adults chatted - every corner of that room is imprinted on my memory but that picture in particular.

[DavidOwen]

Of course, the other type of hoax is fake memorobilia.

It is odd that there is no trace in the newspapers of either a real entity or of criminal activity.

However there is an oblique reference in the Chelmsford Chronicle 20th November 1925 (other references to the "National War Memorial (sic) Committee" I have seen suggested it was supported by Lord Beaverbrook but closed in 1919).

I presume you have researched the soldier concerned to see if any memorial exists?

[Martin A Jones]

He is remembered on the Kingsthorpe (Northampton) memorial which is for the men of the parish. I will look into how this was funded and try and ascertain if the Committee was involved. Thanks for the advice. 

[tootrock]

My reading of the receipt is that the deposit was ten shillings, (one pound crossed out), and the balance was three pounds two shillings.

Martin

[MikeyH]

£13 in 1920 would equate to around £715.00 today, so a sizeable amount.

Mike.

[Martin A Jones]

Yes. It does look like ten bob not ten quid. Would make more sense. 

[brianmorris547]

On 04/11/2022 at 09:43, DavidOwen said:

 

Not much luck yet on identifying who was at 31 Edward Street in 1911.

David

Bradley is in Nelson Districts 7, 8, 9 and 10 in the 1911 Census Summary Books and Edward St is in District 10. Page 8 has a reference to a cotton mill in Gertrude St (The Edward St Mill Co Ltd) and pages 9 and 10 list the even numbers of Edward St. This is reflected in the main Census book for Nelson District 10. I can not find any odd numbers for Edward St.

The Nelson Leader newspaper is on FMP so I will look through 1920.

Brian

Edited 5 November , 2022 by brianmorris547
typo

[Martin A Jones]

I have checked the Northampton (Kingsthorpe) newspapers for the period 1919 - 1925.  There is a committee mentioned formed for the purpose of erecting a parish war memorial but not the committee mentioned on the invoice.  However, there are donations being invited but it doesn't look like these are being overtly canvassed through as a third part such as the above National War Memorials Committee.

This organisation is looking more and more like a scam of some kind or at best some sort of memorial company making some money from the situation.  A piece of research on the exploitation of grief through fraudulent companies would be a fascinating read.  Will check the WFA website to see if they have anything......... when I get a moment.

 

[brianmorris547]

I was in Nelson this morning so I went to the library to see if I could close the gap between James Winterbottom on the 1921 Census (as posted above) and James Winterbottom at 23 Gertrude St on the 1911 Census. Gertrude St is adjacent to Edward St and both addresses are still there. The library does not hold Electoral Registers for the period and directed me to a computer where they went to FMP Electoral Rolls. (I could have done it at home but I have only used FMP for Military - Must have a look and see what else I am missing).

1911 James Winterbottom at 23 Gertrude St. 1912 Still at 23 Gertrude St. 1913 at 31 Edward St but with a reference to 23 Gertrude St. 1915 at 31 Edward St. 

The only other things I could check were Trade Directories. The only Directories in the Library were the Barrats Directory of Burnley 1914 and 1923. 1914 shows Winterbottom Mr Jas at 31 Edward St and 1923 shows Winterbottom Mr J. I checked the business pages there was no trace of the National War Memorials Committee. 

The Library confirmed that the local paper was the Nelson Leader which is on FMP, but I did once look at another Colne and Nelson paper on a visit to Colne Library.

Brian

[DavidOwen]

Looking more like a scam Brian, whether one perpetrated at the time of a later war memorabilia one I don't know. If it was at the time it looks as if they may have got away with it.

[Martin A Jones]

Checked out the newspapers for Nelson on FMP but no reference to the organisation in question.  Thanks for following this up - very much appreciated.

Martin

[brianmorris547]

Martin

The paper I looked at in Colne Library some time ago was the Colne and Nelson Times for 1915. It had lists of recruits from East Lancs, Burnley, Brierfield Nelson and Colne into the County Palatine Artillery and Engineers. It does not seem to be on FMP.

Brian