Field Phone/Buzzer/Detonator?

[4thGordons]

Detail from a recently acquired picture. Pre war Gordons officers - probably on an exercise or range (based on some other images which were related to this one but which I did not manage to get)

Can anyone identify the device being used here?

Set on a post at about waist height the device appears to be a wooden box with a hinged lid/front? with a handle projecting from the right side of the front. There appear to be wires leading down to the ground perhaps to a switch board/connections (foreground) The officer's left hand may be adjusting a knob or perhaps using a morse key? I think he has a cigarette between the fingers of his right hand (another officer standing behind him but cropped out for clarity here is also smoking)

TIA

Chris

[MrEd]

I wonder if it’s signalling equipment, and the wire and the black ball thing is the earth return or maybe the DC signal wire (like in a fuller phone)  I can’t remember the actual way it worked but I *think* there was a system that could transmit ‘through’ the ground (not very secure and easily listened into)

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, 4thGordons said:

Detail from a recently acquired picture. Pre war Gordons officers - probably on an exercise or range (based on some other images which were related to this one but which I did not manage to get)

Can anyone identify the device being used here?

Set on a post at about waist height the device appears to be a wooden box with a hinged lid/front? with a handle projecting from the right side of the front. There appear to be wires leading down to the ground perhaps to a switch board/connections (foreground) The officer's left hand may be adjusting a knob or perhaps using a morse key? I think he has a cigarette between the fingers of his right hand (another officer standing behind him but cropped out for clarity here is also smoking)

TIA

Chris

To me it’s reminiscent of a buzzer device that could be connected at each 100 metre firing point on a 1,000 metre gallery range for musketry.  The buzzer enabled the firing point officer to communicate with the OIC butts party who could then be instructed to raise targets for each firing practice to commence.  In later years they were replaced with field telephones that were connected in the same way, but on posts that were much shorter.  So ingrained did the buzzer practice become that when the field telephones replaced them it was common to simply crank the handle of the phone to create rings emulating the old buzzer system.  One long ring for targets up, two short rings for targets down.  Other variations could be used to convey some other simple instructions. 

[Chasemuseum]

11 hours ago, MrEd said:

I *think* there was a system that could transmit ‘through’ the ground (not very secure and easily listened into)

The power buzzer amplifier was the communication device you are thinking of. It worked a bit like a radio with transmission in morse code. Two old bayonets were used as spikes in the ground each about 25m from the instrument and connected to it by an insulated cable. The bayonets were usually Turkish M1890s or M1887s. The cable was usually attached to a bolt welded into the muzzle ring or a square steel block welded to the blade and cross guard.

 

 

 

 

 

[MrEd]

13 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

The power buzzer amplifier was the communication device you are thinking of. It worked a bit like a radio with transmission in morse code. Two old bayonets were used as spikes in the ground each about 25m from the instrument and connected to it by an insulated cable. The bayonets were usually Turkish M1890s or M1887s. The cable was usually attached to a bolt welded into the muzzle ring or a square steel block welded to the blade and cross guard.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, I did not know about the bayonet use in this instance. Looking at your photos it’s obvious to me that the original photo  is not this device then, my guess was quite a wild stab in the dark tbh

Edited 31 October , 2022 by MrEd

[Chasemuseum]

It does appear very like Frogsmile's rifle range buzzer. The box is similar in construction to some of the WW1 field telephones, it appears to have a morse key and an earth stake in the ground, with a pair of headphones lying on the ground that have not been plugged in.

 

Operationally I suspect that it is similar to the "Amplifier Power Buzzer" but much simpler in construction and with a much shorter range.

 

The problem with the "Amplifier Power Buzzer", was that it was basically directional (backwards and forwards) and depending on soil conductivity had a range of about 5 miles, however that was 5-mile back from a forward position to the receiving station and 5 miles forward into enemy territory. Hence they were notoriously vulnerable to enemy interception.

 

But then the main series of field telephones like the "D Mk III" using a single wire between a pair of telephones and earth stakes at each phone, were vulnerable to interception between 100m and 300m from the earth stake. The "Fuller phone" series were introduced to overcome this problem. 

[MrEd]

3 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

It does appear very like Frogsmile's rifle range buzzer. The box is similar in construction to some of the WW1 field telephones, it appears to have a morse key and an earth stake in the ground, with a pair of headphones lying on the ground that have not been plugged in.

 

Operationally I suspect that it is similar to the "Amplifier Power Buzzer" but much simpler in construction and with a much shorter range.

 

The problem with the "Amplifier Power Buzzer", was that it was basically directional (backwards and forwards) and depending on soil conductivity had a range of about 5 miles, however that was 5-mile back from a forward position to the receiving station and 5 miles forward into enemy territory. Hence they were notoriously vulnerable to enemy interception.

 

But then the main series of field telephones like the "D Mk III" using a single wire between a pair of telephones and earth stakes at each phone, were vulnerable to interception between 100m and 300m from the earth stake. The "Fuller phone" series were introduced to overcome this problem. 

Indeed interesting photo, I have a field telephone from the mid 1930’s and the mid 1940’s both different in terms of attention to detail and finesse but very much of a similar ‘form factor’ to the above Devices.

i have never seen a fuller phone in real life - not a ww1 one anyway. I always though the signallers had a hell of a job tbh

[Chasemuseum]

As I have been planning a communications display I have both the Mk III Fuller and the D Mk III field phones in the office at present so took a couple of photos

Fuller phone

   

Fuller phone Mk III, in normal use, the door is the side of the case and the pads visible above are on the base of the case. The photo on the right shows the instrument oriented as it would actually be used with the lid and canvas side panels making it weatherproof. The whole of the timber case is wrapped in cavas glued to the timber and then painted. 

The CES is a telescoping telephone handset, and an operator's headset with two earpieces. The telegraph key is visible on the lower right side of the case, this folds towards the right side for storage when the lid is closed. The timber compartment on the lower left is for four S-inert or X Mk II batteries.

Instruction sheet glued inside lid

 

And for comparison, the D Mk III field telephone

The rear of the instrument is a compartment holding three S-Inert or X Mk II batteries. The flap on the side of the leather case allows the telegraph key to be used without opening the case. In normal use, this would also include an earpiece for the operator, similar to the example above for the Fullerphone but with only a single earpiece. 

 

Cheers

Ross

 

 

[MrEd]

That’s great thank is for taking the time to post those photos, they are great. 
i won’t post them on the forum as it’s the wrong era but those above are quite similar to the later magneto telephones used by home front units in ww2, I doubt the technology changed a huge amount in that time period tbh although the technological leap in ww1 was quite large - flags and lamps to telephones etc

https://www.thetimechamber.co.uk/beta/blog/wartime-observer-corps-post-telephones

[MrEd]

@Chasemuseum

do you recognise this item?

made in England, Broad arrow marked and dated 1916

[Chasemuseum]

This is a hodge podge of components and in poor condition. It may have been built at RE workshops from salvage materials.

For function it is nominally a single current key baseboard, (GPO key, GPO sounder and a small wood box galvanometer like a QI meter), except:

Difficult to tell from the photo but the key may not be the standard Bristish Army pattern single current key, the GPO key. It is missing the ebonite operators' knob and some connection fittings, but it also appears to be missing a brass fitting from the left side of the key.

The single current key baseboard is normally fitted with a galvanometer, there is no room on the board to fit a galvanometer and it appears to be fitted with a small sounder wired to the key to provide an aural confirmation of the transmission (normally provided by the galvanometer). The small sounder fitted to the board is typical of a model used by RE Workshops, usually seen added to a Lucas daylight signal lamp for the same purpose. 

The configuration of the board does not allow it to be slid into a groove of a transit chest. A standard feature of all models of baseboards (single current key, simplex and duplex) was that they slid into a transit chest and were effectively retained in position so that the instruments would not be damaged by moving in the chest during transport.

In this case, the board looks like it started life as a vibrating sounder, with the original sounder removed and a GPO sounder fitted in its place.

 

 

 

[Chasemuseum]

Note the key above appears to be a Vibrating Transmitter key which is very similar to the GPO key, but not exactly the same. 

 

GPO Single current key

All drawings are from the 1914 telegraphy instrument manual

 

Vibrating transmitter, note that the rear-right side connection marker label is "MB" same as the board being discussed.

 

Q&I Galvanometer

single current key baseboard. Note galvanometer fittings are on the side of the case rather than the top. This allowed the unit to use a slightly smaller transit chest. 

Simplex baseboard - double current key, simplex/duplex switch, GPO sounder, brass cased GPO duplex pattern galvanometer and GPO Relay "A"

Duplex baseboard Mk I (IWM example), on right hand side double current key, simplex/duplex switch, GPO sounder, On left side spares box (for lightning coils), Rheostat Mk II them 7.25 microfarad condenser. Note this example is using a standard GPPO model wood case galvanometer rather than the army brass case model.

 

[Chasemuseum]

I should have added the comment, with a duplex baseboard, there is a second baseboard used with it. This has the sounder  and a relay. 

 

and for the Simplex board

[MrEd]

Thanks @Chasemuseum for the comprehensive reply, that’s interesting - no wonder I couldn’t find it in the telephony manual in that configuration. 

thank you 

Ed

[WARS AND PEACES MINIATURES]

Hello Chasemuseum,

Thank you very much for all this information which allows you to learn.
Have a great day.
Jean-Luc
FRANCE