Three Privates of 1st Bn Manchester Regiment 1921

[8055Bell]

These cases are now a century old.  The army recorded them as having deserted and no trace has been found of them in the intervening period.  Accepting that they could have lived under an Alias the prospect that they were murdered by the IRA and backed up by the murder of the three band boys and Frank Roughley.

The challenge we face is the absence of records of their death.  Any bright ideas would be welcome.

Pte 3513066 B Pincher I think Bernard

Pte 3514271 George Henry Caen

Pte 3513903 Albert Mason

[PaulC78]

Deserters are generally not eligible for commemoration, although there are exceptions. The specific criteria are:

Quote

6.2 Deserters
We may commemorate a person considered to be a deserter if there is evidence to show:
- their death occurred while in service with another branch of the armed forces or while serving with the Merchant Navy and they meet the eligibility criteria for commemoration for that other branch;
- the circumstances of their death provide substantial doubt about their intention to desert; or
- there are other circumstances to warrant exception e.g. burial having been permitted in good faith by a cemetery authority in a service plot.

[8055Bell]

Thanks Paul,

The circumstances of the alleged death certainly caste doubt on the suggested desertion.  This seems to be the case for Roughley too, where his death was accepted and the desertion did not prevent commemoration.

[PRC]

Wonder if this is something forum member @corisande has come across and can advise of Irish sources that might relate to their disappearance.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 24 October , 2022 by PRC
Typo

[corisande]

I am on holiday at the moment, so do not have access to my record

deserters are a very difficult area to research in Ireland. The army, or more precisely individual regiments, was reluctant to admit to deserters. The Ira tended in later years to shoot deserters as spies, but buried the bodies secretly to avoid retaliation by the army - burning houses for example

so either way there is no record of the “deserter” after the war. If you can get a dob then there is a chance of finding him in 1939 register

I have on my cairogang site a list of missing at the truce, and can occasionally solve one on new info, but it is slow going

[8055Bell]

Thanks for this. the Cairo Gang site has been very helpful.  I had a look in the 1939 and death records for all three men and can find no certain evidence that they survived 1921.  I'm going to check out the 1921 Census to see if that gives any clues on DoB.

Tim

[8055Bell]

The 19/06/ 1921 Census shows Pte George Henry Caen in 1^st Bn Manchester Regiment, aged 18y 5m and born Dulwich Middx.  The Service Record for ASC Pte James Albert Caen of Dulwich shows his son George Henry Caen born Camberwell 01/02/1904 and married to Marion Caen.  The Birth Registration shows Q1 1904 and the 1911 Census also shows 1904. This would make George 17y 4m in June 1921.   The difference is probably accounted for by a misstatement of age, but it is remotely possible these are different individuals.

There is no George Henry Caen in the 1939 Register or Death Register.  Marion was widowed (James’ death 1926) in 1939 and still lived in Camberwell with her sons. She was buried in Southwark in 1972.

B Pincher had probably been killed or absconded before June 1921, so no Census entry in the Army.  This eliminates plausible B Pinchers who are included in this Census.  I’m a bit stuck for 1939.

There are numerous Albert Masons serving in the Army for the 1921 Census.  There is an older Albert Mason in the N Staffs, that couldn’t be him. Other than that I’m stumped unless I pay for all the Census records.