18164 Private Thomas C. LOWE SHERWOOD Foresters

[boycey1989]

Hi, 

Tom was my great great grandad and was killed in action, 26th July 1916, whilst serving in the line near Contalmaison, France during the Battle of the Somme.

I am hoping to be reunited with his medals, if there was any, one day though I know it is a very long shot.

Also if anyone else has any further information on him that would be fantastic.

Kind regards

(Also) Tom!

[RussT]

Welcome to the Forum Tom

20 minutes ago, boycey1989 said:

with his medals, if there was any

All men who served overseas were automatically entitled to campaign medals. The number of medals was determined by when he first served overseas and where he actually served overseas.

Your GG Granddad was entitled to the 1914/1915 Star, the Victory Medal and the British War Medal.

Regards

Russ

[RussT]

Here is his Medal Index Card, which sets out his medal entitlement.

The date 29/08/1915 is the date he first deployed overseas (to France)

Regards

Russ

 

[RussT]

As you probably know from CWGC he was killed with the 11th Battalion.

His Medal Roll confirms he only served with that Battalion overseas and his date of entry to France matches the date the 11th Bn first deployed overseas. So it seems he was an original member of that service Battalion. You can download the Battalion war diary free of charge from the National Archives to follow his footsteps until the date of his death.

Russ

[RussT]

His Service Record has not survived but the men with service numbers either side of his i.e. 18163 and 18165 have survived. They enlisted directly into the 11th Battalion on 28/10/1914 so I would suggest it is safe to conclude that Lowe did likewise.

Regards

Russ

[Alisonmallen62]

On the Thiepval Memorial also but have you got access to ancestry? Some stuff on there if interest if you haven’t seen it. 

Edited 19 October , 2022 by Alisonmallen62

[Matlock1418]

11 hours ago, boycey1989 said:

Tom was my great great grandad and was killed in action, 26th July 1916, whilst serving in the line near Contalmaison, France during the Battle of the Somme.

I am hoping to be reunited with his medals, if there was any, one day though I know it is a very long shot.

Tom, Welcome to GWF

Finding medals is commonly a bit of a Holy Grail here on GWF - it can be a real challenge but it is commonly suggested that you look at the British Medal Forum [they have a 'Seeking Family Medals' sub-forum. https://britishmedalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9651

Alternatively if you have Ancestry I believe you can add tags to records such as his Medal Index Card and these might open up an avenue. Perhaps!

Of course there are other potential 'seeking' routes - such as auction sites and on social media [with which I am not familiar!].

Wishing you the best of luck.

11 hours ago, boycey1989 said:

any further information on him that would be fantastic.

Pte Thomas Curris LOWE, 18164, Notts & Derby

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

Of course, there was a sad aftermath ...

Much is probably self-explanatory but a few interpretations for you [may make it more informative and interesting - I hope!]

This pension index card was in soldier’s name and there was another briefer card in the widow’s name so they could be cross-referenced/accessed.  These lead to a ledger via the claim case reference, 941, and then to an awards file. Unfortunately, the ledger is lost [probably destroyed] and the awards file probably deliberately destroyed once its use was passed [as was the common case]

His widow, your GGGM, initially made a claim for a war pension for herself and for pension allowances for her children under Articles 11 & 12 of the Royal Warrant.  There are Pension Index Cards at the Western Front Association/Fold3 [unfortunately a rather less commonly visited source of info so I illustrate for you] - this is probably the most informative

The date of birth 6-10-92 next to her name was his widow's, Florence's, [Required because her pension could be age-related/supplemented if she was >35 - which she was not in 1916 - later the uplift came in at 45 - Such an age banding of pension is believed to address the less likely possibility of re-marriage with increasing age].

She also got a funeral/death Grant to cover incidentals associated with her husband's death - mourning dress for all [though by that stage in the war was probably less commonly worn], newspaper announcements, etc = Local newspapers are a good place to look for a bit more info from before and/or after his death and perhaps a photo [always good if you can post on GWF]

N/N is thought to mean 'Noted for Novel' i.e. special treatment/calculation

S.A. means Separation Allowance - A portion of a soldier's pay which was matched by the government and sent to his dependants to make sure they were not left destitute while he was on active service.  SA were often more generous than pensions and children’s allowances because a wife had to maintain a home ready for her husband’s return whilst a widow did not have such a need and costs – after all, apparently, she could then cut back and down-size her home!  Typically, the no. of SA on the card reflected the number of children [as it does here]

50F is Form 50F used to cease the Separation Allowance and start the pension - there usually was an approx. 6 month gap between death and paying of a pension [in the meantime standard Separation Allowances continued to be paid]. 

She was awarded a pension for herself and allowances for her children, Charles b. 1-2-12, and Marjorie, b. 29-9-13.

The children's allowances were paid to their mother, typically until they reached 16 when such payments ceased [occasionally up to 21 if they were in some form of further vocational training or sometimes if they had impairment/disability] - then the children would certainly be expected to go out to work to earn their keep. Or paid until the earlier death of a child. 

Normally this would have been under Articles 11 & 12 of the Royal Warrant for a standard pension and allowances = 10/- for herself plus 5/- [60d] and 3/6 [40d] for the children respectively = 18/6 pw but we can see that she applied for, and was succcessfully awarded an AP, 7.10.18 Alternative Pension Widow's] under Article 13 of 31/9 pw [£1 11s 9d]  Another card shows her APW claim reference of APW 19356. This would have been because half of her husband's pre-war/service income must have been greater than the total standard pension and allowances. Looks like his pre-war income must have been 63/6 [£2 3s 6d] - perhaps reflecting his occupation [necessarily proven quantum - possibly a miner??]

DEAD,1930, indicates the claim became dead eventually - likely because her youngest child, Marjorie, had reached 16.  This raises the question had his widow remarried [and lost her pension in favour of a one-off remarriage gratuity/bounty] or died by then?

I hope of interest.

M

Edit: The GRO have what appears to be his birth registration - with a slightly different second forename.

Name:                                                             Mother's Maiden Surname: 

LOWE, THOMAS  CURRISS                              GREAVES  

GRO Reference: 1887  J Quarter in WORKSOP  Volume 07B  Page 50

Edited 20 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
Edit

[Matlock1418]

Building the thread for others who might follow ...

As Russ T has already suggested -

CWGC https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/801574/thomas-c-lowe/

War Diary for 11th Notts & Derby https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353268

M

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Tom

Also welcome to the forum

From the Belper News and Derbyshire Telephone 11 August 1916. Clowne and District casualties, centre column.

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

 

lowe.pdf

 

 

[boycey1989]

Hi all,

Just want to say thank you very much for all the responses.

It is a big regret of mine that I didn't press my great grandmother (Marjorie) and my Nan for more information on Thomas, though they did both die when I was young (joined by my mother when I was a teenager) and I wasn't actually aware of him until January this year when my sister was having a look around the family tree. So we are trying to piece bits together etc.

I have done a little bit of research myself prior to coming on the forum and I did discover a photo of him, which was lovely to put a face to the name.

He is becoming a bit of a hero for me, I believe he died during a battle on German lines which raged on for a few weeks and he died on day 14 I believe. I have so much admiration for the bravery of Grandad and all the other lads.

Heres the pic:

 

Though it was under Thomas Curtis Lowe, rather than Curris.

[boycey1989]

12 minutes ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Hi Tom

Also welcome to the forum

From the Belper News and Derbyshire Telephone 11 August 1916. Clowne and District casualties, centre column.

Hope this helps

Kind Regards

Derek

 

lowe.pdf 1.35 MB · 3 downloads

 

 

Wow that's absolutely amazing thank you so much. I had no idea about my uncles either. Really appreciate that.

[Matlock1418]

15 minutes ago, boycey1989 said:

I have done a little bit of research myself prior to coming on the forum and I did discover a photo of him, which was lovely to put a face to the name.

 Thanks for posting - always good to see [on both accounts!]

May he RIP 

M

[Matlock1418]

28 minutes ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

From the Belper News and Derbyshire Telephone 11 August 1916. Clowne and District casualties, centre column.

 Nice one Derek! So interesting to read - No critisism but think this needs more clearly viewing:

Belper News and Derbyshire Telephone 11 August 1916

So very evocative.

The mention of cricket for Whitwell Colliery Club so seem to quite likely support my earlier hazarding of employment in/at a mine - does seem most likely that one.

Now his brothers Harry LOWE and Charles LOWE for the OP to research = excellent find.

M

Edited 20 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
add

[boycey1989]

Harry Lowe, Captain of Liverpool and FA  Cup runner up.

https://www.lfchistory.net/Players/Player/Profile/721

[boycey1989]

https://playupliverpool.com/1916/07/25/harry-lowes-brother-killed-in-action/

 

Some more about Tom

[boycey1989]

Just looking back at my previous research and found that this is how he passed, obviously now we know he bled out.

"15th Battalion W & Z Coys from the trenches South-East of Trones Wood, West of Maltz Horn Farm, France, unsuccessfully attacked German position in conjunction with French attack at 5 a.m. during the Battle of the Somme".

He survived a week of the Battle.

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi M

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

No critisism but think this needs more clearly viewing:

None taken at all and many thanks for clarifying. Would love to know how to snip an article, rather than downloading the whole page. Nobody in our local family history group has a clue.

Tried looking for a Sgt F Marsden/Maraden, the letter  writer, without success

Kind Regards

Derek

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Would love to know how to snip an article, rather than downloading the whole page. Nobody in our local family history group has a clue.

 I barely know either!

Some time / some how in the past I got the Snipping tool from Windows [running W 10]

Now sitting / locked helpfully in my bottom of screen taskbar ready for quick action!

M

Edit:  Snip & Sketch can be accessed via the Windows Start button [bottom left of screen]

Edited 20 October , 2022 by Matlock1418
correction of IT term

[Swinesheadvillage]

Hi Tom

Just to start you off on Charlie Lowe, here's a clipping (using my new found skills thanks to M) from the Belper News Nov 16 1917. Courtesy of FMP

Hope it helps

Kind Regards

Derek

[Matlock1418]

29 minutes ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

Just to start you off on Charlie Lowe,

27 minutes ago, Swinesheadvillage said:

I think this is lkely him at TNA

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3726361

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3726360

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1157289

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30292/supplement/9709 The undermentioned cadets to be temp. 2nd Lts. (attd.). 29 Aug. 1917 : — ... Linc. R. ... Charles Lowe.

M

[josquin]

Sjt. F. Marsden, who wrote to Pte. Thomas Loswe's widow, was:

Frank Marsden, Serjeant, service number 5976, 2nd Battalion, Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment; disembarked to France on 11 November 1914.

source:  Medal Index Card (National Archives reference WO 372/13/124545).

Josquin

[boycey1989]

Hi all,

Tom's brother Harry Lowe medals have surfaced, if Sam Fox is on this forum please can you get in touch?

I'd love to bring these back to the family.

Kind Regards

Tom

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/dad-finds-rare-memorabilia-liverpool-28632697

[Chiefy1960]

Tom was my great grandfather. His daughter Marjorie was my grandmother and she lived until 92 

[Bewick]

Hi Tom,

Thomas C Lowe was my great grandfather, the picture of him you put on this thread was one I managed to find a few years ago in a newspaper which is why it is a bit grainy, I originally put it on my Ancestry tree in 2018, I have done a fair bit of research on him, I have attached another article from the same paper a message to his widow Florence.

[boycey1989]

Just so you guys know I am talking to these relatives in PM, they are both my late mum's cousins 👍