Which Museum is this RND artefact in?

[NR72]

Hi all 

In 1915 Bernard Freyberg swam ashore at Gallipoli to feint an attack he dragged this raft there and back 

Does anyone know which museum it now resides ? 

[Gunner 87]

35 minutes ago, NR72 said:

Hi all 

In 1915 Bernard Freyberg swam ashore at Gallipoli to feint an attack he dragged this raft there and back 

Does anyone know which museum it now resides ? 

A very interesting photograph. The officer is from the Metropolitan Police and ,as such, I wonder if the suited gentlemen is a Detective. He certainly gives that appearance. The Met have a museum though I can't see why such an artefact would be held unless it was later stolen and recovered. Maybe worth sending the curator a copy of this image.  

[michaeldr]

In his report on the action, Freyberg himself describes not a raft, but rather a "waterproof canvas bag"  - see Len Sellers' 'The Hood Battalion'  p.77.

Len gives the ref as WO95/4290

Edited 14 October , 2022 by michaeldr

[NR72]

Sorry to give som context of the photo - this picture comes from a newspaper cutting. It states that a RND museum was opened in 1930 at Crystal Palace including this artefact and others like the bloodstained Drake bn drum recaptured off the Germans 

 

I think the policeman just happens to be taking time out of his patrol to have a look 

[horatio2]

On 14/10/2022 at 07:27, michaeldr said:

In his report on the action, Freyberg himself describes not a raft, but rather a "waterproof canvas bag"  - see Len Sellers' 'The Hood Battalion'  p.77.

Len gives the ref as WO95/4290

I think it was not so straightforward.

Freyberg's record states that he was "towed to within three miles of the shore [by HMS DARTMOUTH's steam pinnace], where we slipped and rowed in another mile." He does not describe his 'platform' but it is often noted as "a raft". Freyberg then "started swimming" and his report states that he was "towing a waterproof canvas bag {containing flares, etc]", not that this was the 'platform' on which had been towed inshore .

On completion of his mission ashore, Freyberg clearly states that he left the beach and "After swimming a considerable distance I was picked up by Lt Nelson in our cutter."

At risk of 'reading into' Freyberg's report, another (better?) interpretation is that he was initially in a ship's cutter which was towed to three miles and was then slipped and rowed a further mile, at which point, concerned at being spotted, he took to the water and swam ashore with his canvas bag in tow.

Other (non-first-hand) descriptions of Freyberg's mission tend to conflate the raft/platform and the bag of flares. It is highly unlikely that he was towed inshore with only the bag of flares which was then "rowed". [How does one row a canvas bag?]. From Freyberg's own report, it would seem he left the raft/platform  well offshore, swam ashore with just the bag of flares and that he was swimming unaided until recovered by a cutter - possibly the same one.

I am at a loss to explain how the 'raft' used in only the inirial tow (and abandoned by Freyberg two miles or so offshore)  was found and recovered at night in the Gulf of Saros, conserved for its historic connection and found its way to an "RND Museum" at Crystal Palace.

Clearly there was some sort of RND Exhibition (although date and venue not stated) as the following extract from Len Sellers' "RND" (p.596) shows. Nor am I familiar with the 'blood-stained POW Drake's Drum' yarn and would love to learn more. The drum was not purchased by Sterndale-Bennett until late May 1917.:-

 

Edited 15 October , 2022 by horatio2

[Keith_history_buff]

8 hours ago, NR72 said:

Sorry to give som context of the photo - this picture comes from a newspaper cutting. It states that a RND museum was opened in 1930 at Crystal Palace including this artefact and others like the bloodstained Drake bn drum recaptured off the Germans 

 

I think the policeman just happens to be taking time out of his patrol to have a look 

The Imperial War Museum was displaying some of its collection here, prior to moving to Bedlam in 1936. There was a RNAS aircraft in the museum that was wrecked by the Luftwaffe in January 1941.

[NR72]

6 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

The Imperial War Museum was displaying some of its collection here, prior to moving to Bedlam in 1936. There was a RNAS aircraft in the museum that was wrecked by the Luftwaffe in January 1941.

Thanks for the lead , did a quick search of their collection couldn't find anything,  maybe I will try and contact them 

[horatio2]

In continuation of my previous post about Freyberg’s Bulair mission, it should be noted that the feint landing of troops (by lowering boats, etc) was begun at 7 pm  and that the boats were recalled at 8.40pm, some 45 minutes after sunset (per HMS DARTMOUTH’s log). Freyberg was on his mission between 9pm and 3am when few boats were in the water, making finding of his ‘canvas bag’ most unlikely. Indeed the recovery of Freyberg himself was described as ‘a miracle’. I am, therefore, sceptical about the provenance of the RND museum-piece.

[NR72]

On 15/10/2022 at 10:43, horatio2 said:

In continuation of my previous post about Freyberg’s Bulair mission, it should be noted that the feint landing of troops (by lowering boats, etc) was begun at 7 pm  and that the boats were recalled at 8.40pm, some 45 minutes after sunset (per HMS DARTMOUTH’s log). Freyberg was on his mission between 9pm and 3am when few boats were in the water, making finding of his ‘canvas bag’ most unlikely. Indeed the recovery of Freyberg himself was described as ‘a miracle’. I am, therefore, sceptical about the provenance of the RND museum-piece.

Begs the question,  why on earth would they exhibit something that patently wasn't used ? 

Must be something in it 

[JWK]

As Mr Feyberg had ties to New Zealand: maybe in one of the New Zealand military museums?

https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nzdf/programmes-and-resources/military-museums/

The Torpedo museum has a section dedicated to Lt General Freyberg:

https://navymuseum.co.nz/uncategorised/bernard-freyburg/

[NR72]

10 hours ago, JWK said:

As Mr Feyberg had ties to New Zealand: maybe in one of the New Zealand military museums?

https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nzdf/programmes-and-resources/military-museums/

The Torpedo museum has a section dedicated to Lt General Freyberg:

https://navymuseum.co.nz/uncategorised/bernard-freyburg/

Could be , it's not in RN museum