Bombardment of In Tepe - 9th June 1915

[michaeldr]

This photo was spotted on Facebook yesterday [however there is a clearer photograph in Klaus Wolf's book 'Victory at Gallipoli 1915' (see p.225)]

Petty Officer (Ordnance/Gunner) Robert August Ludwig Lass 
& Able Seaman (Gunner) Paul Leo Gustav Schirrmacher 

These two German sailors were killed at Kum Kale In Tepe on 9th June 1915. 

Has anyone come across reference to allied counter-battery artillery fire directed at Kum Kale or In Tepe on that date, or possibly a ref to the bombardment of In Tepe by ships of either the British or French navies on that particular day?

 

Thanks in advance, Michael

 

Edited 8 October , 2022 by michaeldr

[charlie2]

According to the secret naval casualty list they were killed at Intepe, is that the same place?
http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/11761750

Charlie

[michaeldr]

Many thanks Charlie, that's interesting

this crop is from a map in the Naval OH - see https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Book-RN2a.htm#1P4

In Tepe is about 3 miles east of Kum Kale and it had (March 1915) a battery of 4 x 15cm Howitzers.
It was suspected that these men had died at Kum Kale as they were buried 200/300 metres from that village. However 3 miles is not so far away and they may indeed have been brought to Kum Kale from In Tepe. 
Kum Kale would have had the bigger garrison and it may have been standard practice to make all burials in the cemetery there

NB: I've edited the title line of this thread to include In Tepe

Edited 6 October , 2022 by michaeldr

[alantwo]

Michael

I had replied in a deleted post that 90th Heavy Battery had fired on 155 A, which is in the area of In Tepe, however it was 15th June not the 9th. The Battery was regularly firing towards Asia in June but nothing is specifically stated for 9th, apologies.

Alan

[michaeldr]

Great to hear from you again Alan, and thanks for looking at this for me.

The more I dig into it myself, the more I am inclined to think that the French might well be involved here.

They suffered very badly under Ottoman artillery fire on the 9th June 1915, including from 15cm HE, which was what I understand was at In Tepe.

The French WD complains of artillery from Asia (and from Europe) being very active on the 9th June, and mentions that between 15:30 and 18:00 in particular, the Bouchet Redoubt was subjected to large calibre HE [15cm is specifically mentioned, and as ref earlier, this is what was at In Tepe]. The fire directed against the French from Asia was so heavy in fact, that they sort the permission of the British to use W Beach on the 10th, as it was less exposed than their V beach for landing men and stores.
It would not surprise me in the least if this turned out to be counter-battery work by the French, very possibly by their navy.
 

 

Edited 6 October , 2022 by michaeldr
spelling!

[alantwo]

Hi Michael

I was just looking up the French artillery. The 52e Batterie 155 L of the 30e régiment d'artillerie de campagne under Captiane Michel were firing towards Asia 7th, 8th and 9th June, but I haven't found any specific targets yet. The Battery's gun positions were northwest of Point 236 (1:40,000 map).

On a separate point, 14th Siege Battery had a been heavily shelled during this time and a gun was put out of action either on the 9th or 10th of June by heavy fire from Asia, their War Diary states two 155mm French guns were detailed to reply. Due to the heavy fire the Siege Battery was forced to move position on the 11th.

Regards

Alan

 

[michaeldr]

Thanks again for your time here Alan

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I record these details on those men there as part of (Sonderkommando Usedom) 

Gößel     Matrose Marine     att Ottoman Batteries at Kumkale or Intepe    1915-    WIA 9-6-15 near Kumkale shown two killed when 12 cm howitzer battery "Usedom battery" led by Capt Haspi SMS Goeben was hit?  (not identified)? 

Laß (Lass) Robert August Ludwig    Feuerwerker Maat Marine     SMS Breslau (Midilli) - Landungs-Abtl.- att Ottoman Batteries "Usedom battery" at Intepe near Kumkale - shown ObLtzS Ordnance Sdr-Kdo (Sonderkommando) - Coastal Artillery to 3/III Naval Artillery Det in Wolf    1915-    (1880 at Groß-Elmenhorst Grimmen KIA 9-6-15) Tot shown 12cm howitzer battery "Usedom battery" was led by Capt Haspi SMS Goeben at Intepe near Kumkale mentioned in Klaus Wolf's Book page 225 

Schirrmacher Paul Leo Gustav    Matrose Marine     SMS Breslau (Midilli) - Landungs-Abtl.- att Ottoman Batteries "Usedom battery" at Kumkale or Intepe - Coastal Artillery Sdr-Kdo (Sonderkommando Usedom)     1915-    (born at Wilhelmsburg Harburg KIA 9-6-15) Tot shown 12 cm howitzer battery "Usedom battery" was led by Capt Haspi SMS Goeben at Intepe near Kumkale mentioned in Klaus Wolf's Book page 225 
 

These man are also mentioned

Usedom Guido von (Pasha)    Kon-Admiral (FM) Marine     MMD (Military Mediterranean Division)  - Inspector General of coast artillery and mines - Usedom Türkiye-Özel güçleri Komutani ve Bogazlar Baskomutani (Usedom Turkey-special forces Sonderkommando Kaiserliche Marine Türkei) commander and the Straits) German Naval Artillery crews along the Straits Gallipoli    1914-18    (1854 in Quanditten died 24-2-25) Colonial Service China the boxer uprising 1900 - Admiralstabsoffizier beim Marineoberkommando in Der Türkei - 26 officers and 432 men (Sonderkommando Usedom 700 men Sailors and Coastal Defence Specialists 9-14) German sailors were added to the crews of the Turkish battleships Turgut Reis and Barbaros Hayreddin with 14 officers/PO's and 55 ratings.The torpedo cruiser Berk I Satvet received 2 officers and 10 ratings. All other torpedo boats were allocated 6 German Engineer officers/PO's and 8 ratings each awarded Oakleaves to the Pour le Mérite and Ottoman Gold Imtiaz Medal 31-3-15 and Liakat Medal and Medjidie Order 2nd class shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

Haspi or Hasbi Efendi    Kapt-Lt Marine    SMS Goeben - OC Usedom battery att Ottoman Batteries at Kumkale commander of artillery group at Intepe named "Hasbi Group"     unknown    possibly Ottoman officer Hasbi Efendi 12 cm howitzer battery "Usedom battery" was led by Capt Haspi SMS Goeben (not identified)? 
 

S.B

[emrezmen]

Hi Michael

 8.8 cm Battery (three 8.8 cm L/45 Krupp from Yavuz "Goeben") was first stationed at In Tepe and later moved next to Kumkale Fort.

Hope this helps

18 hours ago, michaeldr said:

The French WD complains of artillery from Asia (and from Europe) being very active on the 9th June, and mentions that between 15:30 and 18:00 in particular, the Bouchet Redoubt was subjected to large calibre HE [15cm is specifically mentioned, and as ref earlier, this is what was at In Tepe]. The fire directed against the French from Asia was so heavy in fact, that they sort the permission of the British to use W Beach on the 10th, as it was less exposed than their V beach for landing men and stores.

This was almost certainly the Chakal Tepe Battery + Yavuz Battery nearby. All were 15 cm L/40 & L/45 Krupp naval guns. It is true that there was a 15 cm howitzer battery at In Tepe but its range was too short for Bouchet Rdt. A couple of those naval pieces still lie behind Chakal Tepe. Photo from my visit last month.

Edited 7 October , 2022 by emrezmen

[michaeldr]

Emre

Many thanks for identifying the guns which these men were using at In Tepe at the time of their death

As you point out the 8.8 cm L/45 Krupp guns were taken from the Yavuz/Goeben 

The design of this class (Moltke & Goeben) called for 12 of these guns per ship
however, the four mounted in the bow were quickly dispensed with as it was found that they flooded at high speeds. This left 8 guns; 
2 on the forward superstructure, 4 on the rear superstructure and 2 immediately behind
Depending on the type of shell and the elevation used, the range could be approximately 11,700/12,900 yards  see https://web.archive.org/web/20220812005543/http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_88mm-45_skc13.php

 

Emre, thanks again for your help here and for sharing with us the picture of your find earlier this summer.

With best regards, Michael

Edited 8 October , 2022 by michaeldr

[michaeldr]

This is from The Mitchell Report p.506 and (though apparently 24 hours out) may well be a ref to this incident
quote:-
The following are some notes of information collected from Turkish officers on ships' fire at Asiatic guns controlled by aeroplane observation :— 
1st May, 1915.—15 cm. howitzer battery at In Tepe. All emplacements were destroyed and the guns were buried, but were dug out undamaged. 
2nd May, 1915.—A 21 cm. gun was struck and rendered useless for further service. 
3rd May, 1915.—Chakal Battery—H.M.S. Agamemnon  scored direct hit on a 15 cm. Q.F. Naval gun gun and carriage were put out of action. 
7th May, 1915.—At In Tepe—The carriage of a 21 cm. gun was hit and destroyed. The carriage of a 12 cm. gun was also hit and destroyed, 
l1th May, 1915.—25 cartridges of 21 cm. battery were hit and exploded; five men wounded. 
31st May, 1915.—In Tepe—A 21 cm. gun was struck on the chase and rendered no longer fit for service. 
10th June, 1915.—In Tepe—An 8-8 cm. gun hit and completely put out of action. (my emphasis – end of quote)

Edited 8 October , 2022 by michaeldr

[charlie2]

The German OH places the Usedom Battery at Kum Kale

 

[emrezmen]

This is from Usedom's report to Kaiser:

 

[michaeldr]

Two further quotes from the Mitchell Report:-

On 25th May, the Triumph was torpedoed by an enemy submarine, and on the 27th the Majestic met the same fate. This caused a re-organisation of the ships supporting the army as has already been described earlier in this chapter. The result of the organisation was that the support by battleships was limited to previously arranged operations of short duration from which a withdrawal would be made if a submarine was sighted. Destroyers with 4-in. guns took the place of the battleships for continuous support of the Army. [from Mitchell p.233]

The days following 5th June were marked by the renewed shelling of our beaches by the Asiatic batteries. Although this continued practically throughout the whole of the operations, it was particularly heavy during these days. On 7th June it forced the supply ships off Helles to be withdrawn out of range and set the French transport Anna on fire. This fire was replied to by the French guns and by our torpedo boat destroyers. [from Mitchell p.235]

If we are looking for the naval unit involved here

5 hours ago, michaeldr said:

The following are some notes of information collected from Turkish officers on ships' fire at Asiatic guns controlled by aeroplane observation :— 
10th June, 1915.—In Tepe—An 8-8 cm. gun hit and completely put out of action.

then we are almost certainly looking for a TBD

[alantwo]

Early June French communication from the Mémoire des Hommes website illustrates the need to respond to the Asiatic batteries.

Alan

[seaJane]

Not of direct relevance, but this (from Arthur Gaskell's History of the Medical Unit of the Royal Naval Division [part 4], (Journal of the RN Medical Service, vol. 12, no. 2 (1926), p. 138) gives some idea of the conditions. The unit had been involved in 3 Krithia on June 4 & 5:

On June 9, a north-east gale, lasting about a week with clouds of dust
and flies, added to our discomfort; the enemy also increased his high
explosive shelling, and more casualties occurred every day in our rest
camps. More efficient dug-outs became necessary.

[michaeldr]

In the 1930s Capitaine Henri Feuille published his book 'Face aux Turcs Gallipoli 1915' and it seems he made several refs to In Tepe (Intepe): see the June 2021 issue of 'Anafarta'  pages 21-28.

Amongst comments and references to Feuille by the Turkish author, Göktuğ Küçükçoban, are:-

“Since he was in constant hot contact with the Turkish artillery behind Alcitepe and especially with the Intepe batteries, both he and his soldiers felt the cold breath of death on their necks.”

and

“Feuille and his battery also guided the navy elements to destroy the Intepe gunners, who were like a nightmare over Seddulbahir. Many warships of different types fired from time to time both from outside and from inside the Dardanelles, to neutralize these batteries; Feuille and his battery also directed the sea gunners by observing these shots. But the effort of the naval artillery was not enough to silence the Turks in Intepe.”

Does anyone have Feuille's book and does he mention 9^th June 1915?

[michaeldr]

Message received from someone who has checked and it seems that Capitaine Henri Feuille does not after all mention the 9th June 1915 incident which we are interested in here. 
Thanks to all those who have checked.
Michael

[alantwo]

From the Mémoire des Hommes website a map of the various Asiatic targets for the French artillery which may be of interest.

Alan

 

[michaeldr]

Alan,
Thank you again for your continued and valuable in-put here.
The map which you show is significant in that it is also used by the Turkish author in his article on Capitaine Henri Feuille, to which I referred above.
The Turkish writer also provides a similar sketch map showing “...the firing ranges of the French artillery units when firing towards the Turkish lines.” 

 

No doubt it is from the same source. 

Thanks again, Michael

 

 

Edited 13 October , 2022 by michaeldr

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

While this map also shows that more then one Battery was in action during these months.

While I have only the Usedom Battery (3x88cm) , mentioned in most works, gets a jersey 

Batteries like Jawus (1x15cm Sk L/45) Tschakal tepe (4x15cm Sk L/45) possibly also German does anyone know who they are?

or Batteries like Battery Ali (4x15cm Hb) and 2nd Battery (4x12cm L/30)

we known that In Tepe and Kum Kale areas were used by the Usedom Battery but the Kum Keui area is interesting

Clearly not all these were using the areas at the same time as the German map shows the end of 1915 and early 1916 

In the time frame we are looking at, were there others around the areas

The Orhanie Batterie was destroyed by the map, but when, April 1915 or earlier

Another thing, where was the Usedom battery reposioned at Kum Kale from In Tepe

The French map shows it did not fire on Kum Kale, but Orhanie, so did the battery move to Orhanie near Kum Kale?

Anyway these are just random thoughts here.

S.B

[michaeldr]

15 hours ago, stevenbecker said:

Clearly not all these were using the areas at the same time as the German map shows the end of 1915 and early 1916 

Steve,
I think that you've hit the nail on the head there. 
What has to be remembered here is that each map is a representation of the situation at a specific time. 
It may provide a useful basis for generalised theories, however it is dangerous to make hard and fast rules about who was where, when, on the basis of a picture which is only illustrating the situation on a very particular date.

regards, Michael

[alantwo]

On 13/10/2022 at 17:40, michaeldr said:

No doubt it is from the same source. 

Michael, the map you posted is from the same source. The file has two parts Europe and Asia.

Steve, the file only has information on the French Heavy Artillery Counter Battery fire towards Asia. The earliest entry is 31st May and the last 8th November. As you have mentioned the Orhanie Battery the image below from the Mémoire des Hommes file may be of interest and will illustrate the limited information contained therein; this is the only page with aerial illustrations of battery emplacements.

Regards

Alan

Edited 15 October , 2022 by alantwo