Pipers - Loos 25th September 1915

[battle of loos]

Good evening,

Is there a list of pipers of the 15th Division who fell at Loos during the attack of September 25, 1915.
on the other hand, is that we know the number of bagpipes lost in this battle always for the 15th Division?

why these questions?
because I entered this photo showing 1 German soldiers, one of whom has a bagpipe.

thank's in avance for your help.

regards

michel

[alf mcm]

CWGC shows only 2 men with the rank of 'Piper', although it wasn't technically a rank;-

Duncan Keith McLarty, 9th Black Watch

John McKean, 12th Highland Light Infantry

Both are 15th Division.

Regards,

Alf McM

[battle of loos]

thank's for your answer.

regards

michel

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, battle of loos said:

thank's for your answer.

regards

michel

Michel the bag of the pipes for HLI was covered in Mackenzie tartan that in orthochromatic film shows with a light overcheck (grid).  The bag for Black Watch pipes is covered in Government No1 tartan that is dark hued with no pale overcheck.  The German soldier in the photo is almost certainly holding pipes with a Government tartan. 

Edited 29 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[brianmorris547]

The Loos Casualty Lists in the Times started on 13/10/1915 under The British Advance. I found the 8 Lincs Missing on 02/11/1915 and the lists seemed to peter out after 09/11/1915. I went through the same dates in the Scotsman looking for the Black Watch, in particular 8 Bn (9 Div in the North), 1 Bn (1 Div Hulluch) and 9 Bn (15 Div Loos and Hill 70). 

I notice that the writing on the card says bei Loos Hulluch.

I will double check later but the Scotsman 08/11/1915 p 10 in a list dated 28/10/1915 has under Killed - 9 Bn Black Watch - 67 names including McCann S 5335, Piper W and McDougall S 4262 Piper R. William James McCann was from Glasgow and Robert McDougall was from Perthshire. Both were killed on 25/09/1915 and both are named on the Loos Memorial. The same list has 99 wounded from 9 Bn and 130 Missing from 9 Bn. 

Brian

EDIT: There was another one in the Scotsman 05/11/1915 in a list of Missing from 8 Bn Black Watch. Reilly 3375, Piper W but I can find no trace of him.

 

Edited 1 October , 2022 by brianmorris547

[Ron Abbott]

Others from the 15th Division..........

Piper 15339 Robert Campbell of the 13th (Service) Bn. Royal Scots was wounded and taken prisoner at Loos but subsequently died of his wounds in Sep 1915.

Corporal-Piper 13852 David Cowan of the 10th Scottish Rifles was killed at Loos on 25 Sep 1915.

Piper Grant 1449 John Grant Davis of the 2nd Black Watch was KIA the same date. 

CSM (but former Piper) 8561 Richard Lawrie of the 2nd Black Watch was killed that day.

Piper 5/5061 Duncan Keith McLarty of the 9th Black Watch believed killed that day.

Piper S/4380 William Pert of the 9th Black Watch also killed that day.

Piper 5/3375 William Reilly of the 9th Black Watch listed as KIA on 25 Sep 1915 

Piper 18884 John McKean of the 12th HLI lost his life that day

Piper 5721 Charles Anderson of the 8th Seaforth Highlanders posted as missing on that day...later believed killed

Corporal-Piper S/6546 Duncan McGregor of the 8th Seaforth also reportedly KIA that same day

Piper 6400 William MacKay of the 8th Seaforth......same day KIA

Piper 6567 George Spence of the 8th Seaforth KIA

Piper S/8067 Edward Wilson of the 10th Gordon Highlanders wounded at Loos and taken POW.  Subsequently died of his wounds in Nov 1915.

Piper S/13290 George Alves of the 7th Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders .....posted missing, later believed killed that day

Piper 5/3645 Joseph Hill Barnett of the 11th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, KIA on 26 Sep 1915 at Loos

Sergeant (formerly Piper) S/7691 James Ritchie of the 11th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, KIA on 25 Sep 1915 

p.s......there were other pipers from the 9th (Scottish) Division and 7th (Meerut) Division....as well as other divisions........ who lost their lives at Loos on that same day or thereabouts and especially from the 9th Division. 

[brianmorris547]

Ron 

S/4380 W Pert is also in the Scotsman 08/11/1915 under Killed 9 Bn Black Watch, but he is not shown as a Piper in the list like the other two I mentioned.

I only checked for Black Watch because of Frogsmile's post.

Cheers

Brian

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

s

[battle of loos]

4 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

...

ps ..... il y avait d'autres joueurs de cornemuse de la 9e division (écossaise) et de la 7e division (Meerut) .... ainsi que d'autres divisions ........ qui ont perdu la vie à Loos le même jour ou à peu près et surtout de la 9e division. 

Good evening,
for my part, I am only working on the part of Loos.

German regiments present on Loos during the counterattack of October 8, 1915 :

 

the front of September 25, 1915, I divide it into 3 sectors:
- Northern sector : Auchy X
- Central sector : Hulluch / Haisnes X
- southern sector : Loos (double crassiers to chalk pit wood) V

michel

4 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Others from the 15th Division..........

Piper 15339 Robert Campbell of the 13th (Service) Bn. Royal Scots was wounded and taken prisoner at Loos but subsequently died of his wounds in Sep 1915.

Corporal-Piper 13852 David Cowan of the 10th Scottish Rifles was killed at Loos on 25 Sep 1915.

Piper Grant 1449 John Grant Davis of the 2nd Black Watch was KIA the same date. 

CSM (but former Piper) 8561 Richard Lawrie of the 2nd Black Watch was killed that day.

Piper 5/5061 Duncan Keith McLarty of the 9th Black Watch believed killed that day.

Piper S/4380 William Pert of the 9th Black Watch also killed that day.

Piper 5/3375 William Reilly of the 9th Black Watch listed as KIA on 25 Sep 1915 

Piper 18884 John McKean of the 12th HLI lost his life that day

Piper 5721 Charles Anderson of the 8th Seaforth Highlanders posted as missing on that day...later believed killed

Corporal-Piper S/6546 Duncan McGregor of the 8th Seaforth also reportedly KIA that same day

Piper 6400 William MacKay of the 8th Seaforth......same day KIA

Piper 6567 George Spence of the 8th Seaforth KIA

Piper S/8067 Edward Wilson of the 10th Gordon Highlanders wounded at Loos and taken POW.  Subsequently died of his wounds in Nov 1915.

Piper S/13290 George Alves of the 7th Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders .....posted missing, later believed killed that day

Piper 5/3645 Joseph Hill Barnett of the 11th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, KIA on 26 Sep 1915 at Loos

Sergeant (formerly Piper) S/7691 James Ritchie of the 11th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, KIA on 25 Sep 1915 

...

thank's for your work.

regards

michel

Edited 9 October , 2022 by battle of loos

[Vicki Epstein]

I am new to the GWF and very happy to find this discussion around the pipers at Loos on 25 Sept 1915. I'm researching my great-uncle Piper William James McCann S/5335 of the 9th Black Watch, who was killed in action at Loos on that date, and has been referred to in previous posts on this topic.

I have a photocopy of the microfilm report of his death in the Evening Times on 4 Nov 1915, which includes a low-quality headshot of William. The entry quotes the Evening Times of 25 October, which apparently included an account of the 9th Black Watch going into action on 25 Sept with their pipers playing 'Highland Laddie' when William was shot. He was 25 years old and previously worked for a Glasgow bookseller.

He's also referenced in Richard H Crawford's book "Floo'ers of the Forest - Fallen Pipers of the Great War", according to another GWF discussion topic.

If anyone has photos of William or further information about him as a piper of the 9th Black Watch, I'd be very grateful. 

Vicki

[FROGSMILE]

12 hours ago, Vicki Epstein said:

I am new to the GWF and very happy to find this discussion around the pipers at Loos on 25 Sept 1915. I'm researching my great-uncle Piper William James McCann S/5335 of the 9th Black Watch, who was killed in action at Loos on that date, and has been referred to in previous posts on this topic.

I have a photocopy of the microfilm report of his death in the Evening Times on 4 Nov 1915, which includes a low-quality headshot of William. The entry quotes the Evening Times of 25 October, which apparently included an account of the 9th Black Watch going into action on 25 Sept with their pipers playing 'Highland Laddie' when William was shot. He was 25 years old and previously worked for a Glasgow bookseller.

He's also referenced in Richard H Crawford's book "Floo'ers of the Forest - Fallen Pipers of the Great War", according to another GWF discussion topic.

If anyone has photos of William or further information about him as a piper of the 9th Black Watch, I'd be very grateful. 

Vicki

Welcome to the forum Vicki.  There are several forum members who have a special interest in pipers and two others that I can think of who particularly study the Black Watch.  Unfortunately I’ve not seen them here for a couple of years, but I think that they are still around so I’ll try a shout out…

@ronmarsden @David Black @aboode and @Ron Abbott

Once you reply to this you will have made enough posts to use the private message (PM) function (envelope symbol in your profile) and send them messages which might draw their attention more quickly.

Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE

[Vicki Epstein]

Thanks very much for your advice around making direct contact with forum members. Hopefully one of your suggested contacts will be able to help out.

Vicki

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Vicki Epstein said:

Thanks very much for your advice around making direct contact with forum members. Hopefully one of your suggested contacts will be able to help out.

Vicki

I wish you good fortune Vicki, and hope that you make contact with them successfully.  They are each quite expert in their fields of interest and also move in circles where they might be able to pass on and further broaden the scope of your inquiry.

Edited 25 April by FROGSMILE