John Lambert Grieves, Northumberland Fusiliers

[Guest magrieves]

My grandfather served in the Nothumberland Fusiliers, and i would like to know if any one recognises his name. He served in France where he was injured and returned home. I have pictures of him in hospital between April and November 1917, at 2nd london General Hospital, Kings Road, Chelsea, London. There are other soldiers in the pictures if anyone else would like a scan coppy i will be happy to forward them to you. Does anyone have any history of the Northumberland Fusiliers during this time. I am not sure of which battalion he was in. His regimental number was 204310.

[Stebie9173]

To locate anyone with reasonable accuracy during the war, you really need to know his battalion.

The first port of call is usually the soldiers Medal Index Card (MIC) which may state which battalion he was in. John Lambert Grieves is here :

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...1&resultcount=1

It can be downloaded for £3.50 or can be viewed for free at the National Archives at Kew. However, it is not guaranteed to show his Battalion even then.

It should tell you when he entered the Theatre of War - if before 1.1.16 - and what campaign medals he was entitled to.

EDIT : I would still recommend downloading the card, but see my follow up post below before you buy!.

Then you would need to find out which Brigade and Division he was in using the Long, Long Trail "Army Organisation" pages. The LLT link is in the top left corner of this page.

The Divisional pages show a rough trail of where the Division saw action and on which dates.

If the MIC doesn't state the Battalion then you may be able to get some details from the Chelsea Hospitals records - again at Kew, but not available online.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[Stebie9173]

HOWEVER,

Having just realised that your 6 digit number is one of the Territorial Force renumbers, then this page:

http://www.tf.1914-1918.net/TF_renumbering_infantry.htm

tells us that 204310 being in the range of 200001 to 240000 would put him in the 1st 4th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers.

Which puts him in the 149th Brigade, 50th Division per this page:

http://www.1914-1918.net/northfus.htm

thereby allowing us to follow his rough path through the War on this page:

http://www.1914-1918.net/50div.htm

which takes us through to July/August 1918.

Then the battalion transferred to the 39th Division and was invloved in the training of the newly arrived American Forces.

April 1917 would have put him in Arras, which is coincidentally where my great uncle Herbert died of wounds. He may have even passed through the same casualty clearing station...

This might be of more help,

Steve.

[SMG65]

I have checked the Divisional History, (The Fiftieth Division, 1914-1919 by Everard Wyrall) and your grandfather is not mentioned in it. I would have been very surprised if he was as generally only Officers are mentioned.

SEAN

[Guest magrieves]

Oh my God!!, Steve that is fantastic.

Thank you very very much for the links and for your help.

You are clearly a bastion of knowledge, on the subject.

I really do appreciate your reply.

I shall check out the links, but if i get lost, i may contact you again, if i can.

Thank you again.

Mark

[Stebie9173]

Aw, shucks! You're making me blush...

I suppose a caveat on my knowledge of the subject should be the fact that my joining date here is 17 days before yours!

The proof of the pudding in any research for this era is checking with as many sources as possible. If you haven't done so already then I would still recommend looking at his Medal Index Card, if only to see when he actually arrived in the war zone. I for one got a certain buzz from learning when and where my relatives went and what medals they got...

It would hopefully also confirm my theoretical assumptions... (based on the website of Chris Baker. He's member No.1 here so he might just know what he's doing!) I am told there are possible variations to the Battalions even based on the 1917 change in the numbering system.

If the MIC doesn't state the actual Battalion then the Medal Rolls - only available at the National Archives/PRO at Kew, not online - are more likely to.

Beyond the Divisional level, War Diaries - hand written accounts written by an Adjutant at the time (I feel like I'm handling history when I read them) - are usually available for most of the Battalions. Again, they are stored at the PRO but there is always someone with a copy lurking around. There is a forum here for those that have them to share them.

They will only very rarely mention any soldier who is not an officer, but they will show exactly what engagements the Battalion actually fought in.

I seem to be rambling. I'll shut up now,

Steve.

[Guest magrieves]

Steve, thanks again.

I made the trip to Kew, a while ago, and have his medal record card.

He was, and to me still is,

Private John Lambert Grieves

Northumberland Fusiliers, Regtl No 204310.

I have original medals, alas not his, of the Victory Medal, SWBadge and British Medal, which are on the card.

The Theatre of war first served in, date of entries therein and other remarks, are all blank on his card.

All that is on there is his Regtl No, name, Regiment, Victory 0/1/105 B(?)or(5)57, under the Roll heading, and 13735 under the Page heading. And the above is ditto ditto ditto, under for the British Medal.

Silver War Badge is numbered as 0/382/1.

Thats it, all a bit of a blank really.

The links you sent me, i looked at them and paid more interest to them this time, as i could see where they were leading. I had read them before but was thrown a little by the 4th in Hexham, as the 5th would have made more sense as he was from Walker, but his Regtl No confirms the 4th.

Im sure that makes sense.

Any other guidance would also be welcome.

I appreciate your help.

Kind Regards

Mark.

PS, Forgot to mention the pictures i have. I havent yet been able to find too much on the 2nd London General Hospital, around 1917 when he was there between April and November.

[Guest neil3]

Unfortunately I do not have any information on John Lambert Grieves, but you could look at my website to get an idea of what the 4th Battalion Northumberland Fusiliers were involved in.

www.4thbnnf.com

regards

Neil

[Stebie9173]

Mark,

The date of entry to Theatre is only entered when the soldier is entitled to the 1914 or 1914/15 Star. The fact that it is blank means that he entered the Theatre of War after 1-1-1916.

Steve.