Help identify the grenade !

[Bandolero]

Hello,

Can anyone identify this grenade ? Origin country and manufacturing year ~

Cast iron, and “D 3” is marking 

 

Completely inert⚠️

 

 

Many Thanks ! 

[14276265]

The body is that of a French F1 hand grenade, although the presence of the brass base plug suggests it might be one of a number that were made to take British No.16 furniture.

 

 

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[Bandolero]

What is the original inside diameter of the opening of this grenade threaded igniter?
 

Is it possible that it has been changed?
 

 

 

[Bandolero]

[14276265]

57 minutes ago, Bandolero said:

What is the original inside diameter of the opening of this grenade threaded igniter?
 

Is it possible that it has been changed?
 

 

 

I believe the original French thread was M14x2, but the fuze aperture is definitely bigger on your example.

With the measurement of over 15mm as you show, it indicates the body was furnished with a No.16 grenade fuze. The thread is 3/8 BSP, a standard gas thread used on several WWI British grenades. The body is basically a hybrid French F1, furnished with British No.16 fuze and base plug, for supply to Latvia and Lithuania.

[Bandolero]

[Bandolero]

3 hours ago, 14276265 said:

I believe the original French thread was M14x2, but the fuze aperture is definitely bigger on your example.

With the measurement of over 15mm as you show, it indicates the body was furnished with a No.16 grenade fuze. The thread is 3/8 BSP, a standard gas thread used on several WWI British grenades. The body is basically a hybrid French F1, furnished with British No.16 fuze and base plug, for supply to Latvia and Lithuania.

So that grenade body isn’t original genuine French Fusante No. 1, But later modified for export purposes, Right ? 

[14276265]

It is either a French-made F1 body that has been modified to take the No.16 fuze and base plug, or it is a French pattern F1 made by a British company with No.16 fuze and base plug. Either way such grenades were supplied to Russia in 1916 and examples have been found in Latvia and Lithuania.

Where was it found?

Edited 25 September , 2022 by 14276265

[Gunner Bailey]

I have one of these. It came with a description of 'Prototype No.16 with French F1 style body'. I can post a photo at the end of the week. So these may have been an alternate body shape for the No.16 perhaps aimed solely for export.

Edited 26 September , 2022 by Gunner Bailey

[Bandolero]

On 25/09/2022 at 22:49, 14276265 said:

It is either a French-made F1 body that has been modified to take the No.16 fuze and base plug, or it is a French pattern F1 made by a British company with No.16 fuze and base plug. Either way such grenades were supplied to Russia in 1916 and examples have been found in Latvia and Lithuania.

Where was it found?

Thanks ! As I understand It’s modified French Fusante No. 1 grenade body.

It was found in Latvia.

Best regards 

[14276265]

Thank you for confirming where it was found. There is a good chance it is a British-made copy of the French F1 body - a number of companies were contracted to make them for the Russian Government. The attached is from a plate showing grenades made by a British company over the course of the war.

 

265

 

Edited 27 September , 2022 by 14276265

[Bandolero]

Thanks for valuable information!
 

Are those more rare than common French Ones ? 🙂

Fuze markings “E&S  1915”

[14276265]

6 hours ago, Bandolero said:

Are those more rare than common French Ones ?

Fuze markings “E&S  1915”

 

Probably fair to say they are more scarce than common French F1 grenades.

E&S on the fuze is Edison and Swan Company Ltd - and to confirm, the fuze is the pattern designed for the No.16 grenade.

 

Edited 27 September , 2022 by 14276265

[Bandolero]

13 hours ago, 14276265 said:

Probably fair to say they are more scarce than common French F1 grenades.

E&S on the fuze is Edison and Swan Company Ltd - and to confirm, the fuze is the pattern designed for the No.16 grenade.

 

Thank you 14276265 for the valuable information, It’s highly appreciated! 😎

One more question - What means marking “D 3” on the Grenade body ?

Also I have found these English No. 16 grenades in Estonia.

 

 

Thank you in advance! 

Edited 28 September , 2022 by Bandolero

[Bandolero]

Any information about these ? I assume they were made in England ?!

Was Also found in Latvia ! 🙂

[Interested]

The lid with "Kynoch" written on it was probably manufactured by these people:

Kynoch - Graces Guide

[AOK4]

the left cartridge is for a Moisin Nagant, I think, the right may be British indeed.

[14276265]

On 28/09/2022 at 13:39, Bandolero said:

 

 What means marking “D 3” on the Grenade body ?

Also I have found these English No. 16 grenades in Estonia.

 

There is no way of saying with certainty what the letter D or number 3 indicate.

For a body made by a British company to a Russian contract, one reason for having a single letter was to identify the maker. The British companies making F1 bodies also made No.16, so examining a list of No.16 contracts it might be that D is Doulton and Co., Paisley, Scotland.

The number might identify the casting mould used within the company, for its own purposes, but that is speculation on my part and not to be taken as fact.

The whole British output of No.16 grenades amounting to over 4 million were sent to Russian and Serbia, late 1915 to 1916, which is why today they are found as relics in the Baltic states and Poland. After WWI surplus No.16 grenades were used by countries including Estonia, the Estonians using a modified fuze mechanism. The attached internet image is a WWI-surplus No.16 with Estonian fuze - maker HLD is Horace Llewellyn Dent Ltd, London.

 

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Edited 13 April , 2023 by 14276265

[AOK4]

The Kynoch clip is for 6.5 Arisaka ammo (made for Russia during WWI).

[Gunner Bailey]

As promised last week (I've been away), here are some photos of mine.  An M is cast into the body, so possibly RA Main of Scotland. The base plug is brass.

Edited 2 October , 2022 by Gunner Bailey

[Mk VII]

the left-hand 7,62x54 cartridge case was made by Government Cartridge Factory No.1 in Blackheath, Staffordshire, which was managed by the Birmingham Metals & Munitions Co on an agency basis.  A large proportion of Britain's SAA capacity in WW1 was devoted to supplying Russia's needs.  

The right-hand one is a Mark VII ball cartridge made by Rudge-Whitworth Cycle Co in Nottingham. 

Edited 2 October , 2022 by Mk VII

[Bandolero]

On 03/10/2022 at 00:54, Mk VII said:

the left-hand 7,62x54 cartridge case was made by Government Cartridge Factory No.1 in Blackheath, Staffordshire, which was managed by the Birmingham Metals & Munitions Co on an agency basis.  A large proportion of Britain's SAA capacity in WW1 was devoted to supplying Russia's needs.  

The right-hand one is a Mark VII ball cartridge made by Rudge-Whitworth Cycle Co in Nottingham. 

MK VII Thanks for the background Information!  
 

I somehow thought these cartridges might be made in England.

Here is one place where I always find them with a metal detector. "Remington 16" and "W 16" Many different cartridge cases with different manufacturer markings.

[Bandolero]

On 01/10/2022 at 18:19, Gunner Bailey said:

As promised last week (I've been away), here are some photos of mine.  An M is cast into the body, so possibly RA Main of Scotland. The base plug is brass.

WoAh a royal piece 😎

These (British issued)Grenades seems to be quite scarce !

This is almost one on one what I have, expect grenade body markings.🙂

 

Thanks for sharing this picture !

 

 

Edited 5 October , 2022 by Bandolero

[Gunner Bailey]

My pleasure!