Herbert Gibson Royal West Kent's G/19159

[Longboat]

Herbert Gibson enlisted on the 12th December 1915 and was discharged on the 4th August 1919 due to wounds and issued a Silver War Badge. He was 28 years old.

His entry on the Medal Roll shows he served with the 11th Royal West Kent's. Although I cannot find any service records relating to him his number falls within a batch of men who were formerly of the Kent Cyclist Battalion and joined the 11th Royal West Kent's in February 1917.

He died on the 1st October 1919 and  one of his pension cards  states, "death from disability due to service."

His entry in the Index of Wills on Ancestry states that he was an Army Pensioner. Both Pension card and Index have the same address.

I cannot find him on CWGC although he is commemorated upon the Margate War Memorial in Kent and at All Saints Church War Memorial in nearby Westbrook.

I'd be grateful for any guidance on Herbert's case before I go ahead and order a Death Certificate.

Thanks in advance

Stuart.

 

[PaulC78]

Looks a little risky to me. The pension card says "death from disability due to service", but I don't see any record which says what that disability was. The DC may help, but equally it may not. Could well be that there's insufficient evidence to make a case. Up to you, though.

[Longboat]

Hi Paul,

Appreciate the feedback, thank you.

I've spent a number of years researching the men of the 11th so I'll take a chance and if anything transpires I'll let you know.

Stuart.

[PRC]

He was discharged on the grounds of wounds, but we have nothing to say what those wounds were and what disability they left him with. Unless there was a coroners inquest which gave a very specific verdict on the cause of death, you''ll probably find the death certificate will be relatively neutral - or at least not specific enough to support your case.

Playing devils advocate, I've seen men discharged because they have lost their trigger fingers in a wounding, for example, and so it would be difficult to see how a death might be related. Of course your man may have taken a wound to the stomach, chest or head and in theory a subsequent death might be understandable. But in the absence of firm evidence for the nature of the wounding it will be an uphill struggle.

I think also the impression that's been gained is that once you get past the initial CWGC gatekeeper role, (did he serve and die within the stated period and has sufficient evidence been supplied), the Army investigation tends to attach a very low value to the pension cards alone, seeing them as no more than a secondary confirmation of information in the service \ discharge record. They are not good enough in themselves to build a case on. The devil's advocate view might be that the "cause of death" on the pension card was what was stated in making the claim, rather than a statement of fact. At best they might help establish a link between the man that served and the man that died - if for example there is an address \ next of kin in common. I'm assuming he died after his War Gratuity was paid out - if not there would be a Register of Soldiers Effects entry for him, (Ancestry \ Fold3).

I note that when submitting a case to the CWGC one of the options is to attach newspaper articles. It's not something I've ever done and I don't know how much weight the Army investigators would give them. Certainly at the time the armed forces were keen to see newspaper reports on coroners inquest and I have come across cuttings before now in surviving service records. And of course there would have to be an inquest to begin with.

I don't know if it's any help, but the only Herbert Gibson with a Kent connection on the 1911 Census of England & Wales and of the right age was actually born Brixton, Surrey. He was a 19 year old Borough Clerk staying in a boarding house at 1 Station Road, Margate. I wonder if the local council might have any records that would help, starting with a war memorial \ roll of honour? I still can't see any surviving records, but others may have more luck.

Good luck should you decide to go ahead,
Peter

[Longboat]

Thanks Peter,

It may be a case of building a body of evidence if it exisits with regards to newspapers and any other documentary evidence. A trip to the Kent Archives Centre is on the cards for this coming winter at some point with a long to do list.

I couldn't find an entry in the Register of Soldiers Effects records and came to the same conclusion as yourself.

I saw the 1911 census entry which has his mother as head of the household and believe it is the same person. The address is Station Rd, Westbrook which tallies with the local war memorial at All Saints Church,  where a Herbert Gibson is inscribed.

To begin the the process I'll order the death certificate and see how we go,

Cheers, Stuart.

[Longboat]

An update to this thread.

Herbert Gibson's Death Certificate. I'm can see that this is not enough evidence on its own but does anybody know what " No G.M"  means under Exhaustion?

Stuart

 

[PaulC78]

"No P M" = no post mortem

[Longboat]

Cheers Paul,

I'm off to the opticians on Monday and not before time.

Stuart.

[charlie962]

His SWB says discharged wounds.

He was reported wounded in Daily Casualty List 

 H Gibson

Casualty Status Wounded

Service Number 19159

Regiment Royal West Kent Regiment

Category Wo's, Nco's and Men

Home Town / Place of Enlistment Margate

Daily List Date 14th September 1917 

(Sourced from The Genealogist)

His Death Cert clearly identified cause  'Pulmonary Tuberculosis supervening gunshotwound leg'. How do the medics interpret this? 

Charlie

 

Edited 22 October , 2022 by charlie962