Unknown Worcestershire Regiment Officer.

[high wood]

I have just purchased this framed photograph of an officer of the Worcestershire Regiment complete with his O.S.D. cap badge mounted on the frame. I have removed the back of the frame and there are no clues on the back of the photograph to suggest who he is. The photographed was framed by C.S. Baynton. Photographic and Motoring Accessories, New Street, Birmingham, which may indicate a possible location for his place of residence.

I have very little to go on but would welcome any help in trying to identifying him. I am also unsure of the significance of his armband but it may indicate the mourning of a brother or father.

 

Edited 19 September , 2022 by high wood

[Promenade]

Thought I recognised him !

From Bromsgrove, Droitwich and Redditch Weekly Messenger, 4 November 1916

[high wood]

That is absolutely brilliant and just what I had hoped for. This wonderful forum so often comes up trumps. I will start to research him and see what else I can unearth.  Many thanks for your help.

 

[Old Owl]

What an excellent result--very well done that man!

[high wood]

It seems that Joseph Laurence Hull began his military career as a Pte. in the Birmingham Pals as his M.I.C. shows him having the regimental number 15/410 and serving with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment

Edited 27 September , 2022 by high wood
Spelling correction

[FROGSMILE]

Interesting that he’s wearing the black crepe armband decreed by officers’ dress regulations for ‘official mourning’. 

Edited 27 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Acknown]

Field Marshall Lord Roberts died in Nov 14 and was given a state funeral. Would this have led to official mourning and account for Hull's armband?

Acknown

Addition: But it looks like he was commissioned in Oct 15: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29321/supplement/9998, so maybe not.

Edited 27 September , 2022 by Acknown

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, Acknown said:

Field Marshall Lord Roberts died in Nov 14 and was given a state funeral. Would this have led to official mourning and account for Hull's armband?

Acknown

Addition: But it looks like he was commissioned in Oct 15: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29321/supplement/9998, so maybe not.

Yes it would have had he been commissioned at the time, although probably not worn on active service in the line.

[high wood]

Is it not more likely to be a mourning armband for Lord Kitchener? If so, it would date the photograph to sometime after 5th June 1916.

Edited 27 September , 2022 by high wood
Additional comment.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, high wood said:

Is it not more likely to be a mourning armband for Lord Kitchener? If so, it would date the photograph to sometime after 5th June 1916.

Seems a likely possibility.

[high wood]

Birmingham Daily Post. 26th October 1916.

Sec. Lieut. J. L. Hull. (Died of wounds).

Second Lieutenant Joseph Laurence Hull, Worcestershire Regiment, who died on the 18th inst. of wounds received in action. was the youngest son of Mr & Mrs Joseph Hull, Highfield, Blackwell, Bromsgrove, and was twenty years of age. Second Lieutenant Hull was educated privately and at the Birmingham Technical School, and when war broke out was a student at the Birmingham School of Art. He immediately enlisted in one of the Birmingham City Battalions, and after twelve month's service in the ranks was given a commission in the Worcestershire Regiment. He went to the front on September 9 last.

[FROGSMILE]

9 minutes ago, high wood said:

Birmingham Daily Post. 26th October 1916.

Sec. Lieut. J. L. Hull. (Died of wounds).

Second Lieutenant Joseph Laurence Hull, Worcestershire Regiment, who died on the 18th inst. of wounds received in action. was the youngest son of Mr & Mrs Joseph Hull, Highfield, Blackwell, Bromsgrove, and was twenty years of age. Second Lieutenant Hull was educated privately and at the Birmingham Technical School, and when war broke out was a student at the Birmingham School of Art. He immediately enlisted in one of the Birmingham City Battalions, and after twelve month's service in the ranks was given a commission in the Worcestershire Regiment. He went to the front on September 9 last.

A fine looking young man whose picture, no doubt lovingly framed by his family, rather forlornly epitomises the human waste of so many unfulfilled lives.  A very poignant relic and artefact for you to possess.  I strongly suspect that the OSDB badge was probably his when he was killed.  It would have added a comforting personal element to the frame.

[PRC]

9 minutes ago, high wood said:

and when war broke out was a student at the Birmingham School of Art. He immediately enlisted in one of the Birmingham City Battalions

A proposal for a Birmingham City Battalion to be raised - with no specific regiment in mind, was floated locally towards the end of August by the Birmingham Daily Post which also set up a register to record expressions of interest to prove that there would be sufficient recruits. The Mayor of Birmingham picked up on this and asked the War Office to sanction it.

The single Battalion was provisionally agreed to by Lord Kitchener on Saturday 29th August 1914, and by late on the 29th the offices of the Birmingham Daily Post had a queue waiting to sign the register. The office remained open on the Sunday, and the paper for Monday the 31st August 1914 contained a list of all those who signed to express an interest to join. Such was the volume that it was believed a 2nd Battalion could be raised - eventually it would be four.

Of course that meant the local ad-hoc organisation was not only chasing formal agreement for the first Battalion but also any agreement to the subsequent Battalions.

Meanwhile each days edition of the Birmingham Daily Post contains a list of those who'd expressed an interest the previous day.

The edition of Friday 4th September 1914 sees the appearance of a J.L. Hull of Highfield, Blackwell. 

Image courtesy the British Newspaper Archive.

That days list brought the total who had registered to 2,122. By the time the Register closed at 10 pm on Satuday 5th September the number had reached 4,500.

The following week those men on the register started to be invited back to formally enlist to serve with the 14th (1st City of Birmingham), 15th (2nd City of Birmingham), 16th (3rd City of Birmingham) and 17th Battalions (4th City of Birmingham) of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

Hope that's of interest,
Peter

[high wood]

On 27/09/2022 at 22:50, FROGSMILE said:

A fine looking young man whose picture, no doubt lovingly framed by his family, rather forlornly epitomises the human waste of so many unfulfilled lives.  A very poignant relic and artefact for you to possess.  I strongly suspect that the OSDB badge was probably his when he was killed.  It would have added a comforting personal element to the frame.

It is indeed, a very poignant reminder of the true cost of the Great War which demanded payment in lives and limbs. I often think of how this country might be now if that generation had survived and thrived. The books unwritten, the music uncomposed, the art unpainted, the technology uninvented, the faith unlost. The world could have been such a different pace, and to think that their sons and daughters had to go through it all again twenty one years later, a terrible coming of age.

Joseph Hull could have become a great artist, designer or sculptor but we will never know what we have lost. I wonder if the arts and crafts frame to his portrait photograph was influenced by his  studies at the Birmingham School of Art.

 

Edited 12 October , 2022 by high wood

[high wood]

Peter,

many thanks for your extensive reply which was definitely of interest. I was aware of the history of the Birmingham City Battalions but I have not seen those newspaper articles before. If those newspapers are available on FMP I will download the relevant lists as I have a few other "Birmingham Pals" items in my collection.

Simon.

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, high wood said:

It is indeed, a very poignant reminder of the true cost of the Great War which demanded payment in lives and limbs. I often think of how this country might be now if that generation had survived and thrived. The books unwritten, the music uncomposed, the art unpainted, the technology uninvented, the faith unlost. The world could have been such a different pace, and to think that their sons and daughters had to go through it all again twenty one years late; a terrible coming of age.

Joseph Hull could have become a great artist, designer or sculptor but we will never know what we have lost. I wonder if the arts and crafts frame to his portrait photograph was influenced by his  studies at the Birmingham School of Art.

 

Yes I think you encapsulated the what if perfectly.  As regards the School of Art influence on the picture frame, it seems very possible.  Perhaps a contribution by a fellow former student.  There must be so many stories hidden in these poignant artefacts I think.

[PhilB]

The 13th Bn Worcesters did not leave UK. The Graves Registration Report Form shows him as 4th Worcesters with the 4 crossed out and overwritten 13. Unusually the 4th Bn was a regular Bn serving with 88 Brigade 29 Div at the time of his death. On the 18th Oct that Bn attacked Grease Trench on the Somme during the Battle of Le Transloy.

"The 2nd Hampshire and the 4th Worcester took Grease Trench with few losses but then had many casualties trying to press on."

I`m not sure how this relates to his place of burial:-

DARTMOOR CEMETERY, BECORDEL-BECOURT

[Alisonmallen62]

11 hours ago, high wood said:

Peter,

many thanks for your extensive reply which was definitely of interest. I was aware of the history of the Birmingham City Battalions but I have not seen those newspaper articles before. If those newspapers are available on FMP I will download the relevant lists as I have a few other "Birmingham Pals" items in my collection.

Simon.

 

Are these lists on FMP please?  I dnt have a membership with them but will buy credits if they operate that way?  I always have ancestry uk.  However, i would love to find if my relative is on the list.  

[PRC]

44 minutes ago, Alisonmallen62 said:

Are these lists on FMP please?

FMP acts as a backdoor to the British Newspaper Archive, so the actual newspapers are going to be available on both those pay sites. As usual the transcription of images into text is diabolical, and a surname like Hull, for example, with all the overlap with the place name means it probably would never have shown up, even if you took a free trial on either site. BNA allows you three free pages before your have to pay. Hopefully the name(s) you're interested in have less potentials for such confusion

So as to not drag this thread off-topic, if you want to PM me with the name(s) your after, I'll take a look at what I've got squirrelled away from those lists, and that way at least you'll hopefully know whether there is something to find.

BTW 1 - I thought Ancestry had recently added newspapers to their offerings, and presumably have a similar arrangment with the BNA. Of course it may require an additional subscription to what you currently have.

BTW 2 - if you are in the UK then your local public library service almost certainly has a subscription to the British Newspaper Archive. You do have to be onsite and using one of their computers with your library membership login, but is then free to use and the only constraints on downloads are likely to be the length of the session the library allows, any fair use limit that the BNA applies, (I've not found one yet!), and the size of your memory stick. Incidentally they also are likely to subscribe to something called Gales Collection which currently allows access from home to many of the titles on BNA pre 1900, (and I understand that date is under review), and The Times Digital Archive, amongst many other things. So if you weren't already aware, may be worth checking out your local library service website to see what's on offer, and dusting off your library ticket

Cheers,
Peter

[Alisonmallen62]

Thank you!! Will pm you