Trench map E Section Right Flank 1st Brigade Sector Gallipoli

[Skipman]

Does anyone have such a thing as a trench map for May 1915 of E Section Right Flank 1st Brigade Sector Gallipoli. It's where the 2nd Battalion AIF would have been.

Mike

[WhiteStarLine]

Mike, if we look at page 2 of the AWM's https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/collection/RCDIG1009992/bundled/RCDIG1009992.pdf it has a 28 May map.  For the detail, we can then have a try with the Sevki Pasa series, which have all been georeferenced by The Western Front Association.  If you can find the rough location we can narrow it down on the high resolution Sevki Pasa map.

[Skipman]

Excellent thank you very much that's great. I'm going through the diary and there may be better maps but this one is a bit vague.

 

Mike

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

The sketch map I have posted in the 'Turkish Mia Mia' topic may be of some help to your enquiry, although it is roughly in line with those put forward by White Star Line.

From the 8th Battery, 3rd Artillery Brigade, diary, this sketch of Major A. J. Bessell-Brown's five gun emplacements at the Pimple may be of some use to your work. Although not shown on the sketch, it can be determined the rough position of the two machine gun positions.

Trust these may be of assistance.

 

Jeff

 

[Skipman]

Many thanks Jeff. 

 

Mike

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

If you have not already done so, have a look at ‘The Official History Of Australia In The War Of 1914-1918, Volume II, The Story Of Anzac:’, available on line from the AWM. There are number of sketch maps and map plates accessible from the history, and probably staring with Map No.8, page 263, ‘Four stages in the growth of the trenches at the Pimple salient, Anzac’, through to the air- photographs and sketch maps of Lone Pine, page 563, that out line the trenches up to August.

Jeff

[Skipman]

Morning Jeff. I have studied it in the past but will have a look. My memory of it is of really poor scans of the maps. Do you know of a decent online version of these maps or were Bean's maps just not that good?

 

Mike

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike,

I am sending you Gallipoli Map No. 17 of Sevki Pasha, drawn up in 1916, as it is too large to post here.. Unfortunately this map also has only the main outline of the Pimple and surrounding trenches, but it does show the firing line trench and the exit to the 3rd Infantry Brigade H.Q. linking to those main trenches. From Professor Haluk Oral's book, "Gallipoli 1915, Through Turkish Eyes", it is shown that there is now no trace of the Pimple any more, as it is under the western end of the Lone Pine Cemetery.

Jeff

[Jeff Pickerd]

Sorry Mike, I was posting as your reply came through.

From what I can see of the AWM official history on-line, they have obviously improved the photographic and map scans. The maps and photographs I have looked at today are fine.

Jeff

[WhiteStarLine]

Mike,

The Western Front Association have over 250 georeferenced Gallipoli Peninsula maps including all Sevki Pasa.  Anyone can use them, although only members can zoom beyond level 15 and download them.  Roughly 70 cover ANZAC, but many of these are at a scale that won't help you.

Click this one to enlarge and let me know if you need the extract a bit further north or south.  Or give me a rough modern lat, lon and I can take a look for you.

Cheers, Bill

 

[Jeff Pickerd]

Bill,

 You will have to move the map further up to the East, must have the Pimple and Lone Pine as its center.

Mike,

Have called in my IT specialist, i.e. my Son. Sevki Pasha map 17 now resized.

Jeff

[WhiteStarLine]

Click to enlarge.  PM on way.

[Skipman]

Many thanks indeed to all for your help. With all these I now have the information I require and I'm extremely grateful to you all.

 

Mike

[Skipman]

Is the orientation of this sketch roughly as shown and the red arrow points to 'The Pimple' is that right?

 

Mike

[Jeff Pickerd]

Mike, yes the orientation is correct, facing East towards Lone Pine. The three 8th Battery guns and the two machine gun posts at the Pimple are targeted across the Turkish trench lines of Lone Pine and beyond.

Jeff

[Skipman]

52 minutes ago, Jeff Pickerd said:

Mike, yes the orientation is correct, facing East towards Lone Pine. The three 8th Battery guns and the two machine gun posts at the Pimple are targeted across the Turkish trench lines of Lone Pine and beyond.

Jeff

Excellent thank you. Before I started looking into this, I assumed the 'Pimple' was a feature of the ground, not an actual salient in the line.

 

Mike

[Howard]

Have a look at the 1:5,000 post evacuation Map 17, the Şevki Paşa maps on TrenchMapper. These are geometrically the most accurate maps of Gallipoli, most others are better described a sketches.

The guns are also shown. Legend on the Help Pages.

If you have not used TrenchMapper before, right click on the  opening map and choose Gallipoli. More guaidance on the Help Pages,

Howard

Edited 21 September , 2022 by Howard

[Skipman]

2 hours ago, Howard said:

If you have not used TrenchMapper before, right click on the  opening map and choose Gallipoli. More guaidance on the Help Pages,

Howard

Thanks Howard, these are excellent. I am going to have to join the WFA soon.

 

Mike

[Howard]

7 hours ago, Skipman said:

Thanks Howard, these are excellent. I am going to have to join the WFA soon.

 

Mike

Good idea. We have about 4,700 maps available now, several hundred of them of Gallipoli. All the available Gallipoli maps are now on but the total maps should move a lot higher.

The georeferencing of the Gallipoli maps was a challenge as the mapping quality is average to poor in terms of planimetry, the geometric accuracy.

If anyone has good quality scans that are not covered by user agreements or copyright, please lets us know as they can be added to the project.

Howard

Edited 21 September , 2022 by Howard