2Lt Ivan Wilmot Frank Agabeg - South Lancs, RAF, Actor

[Mark1959]

Edited by @DavidOwen as new thread started

The above officer was in charge of the firing party that executed Private John Rogers (2nd South Lancs) for desertion on 9th March 1917. He was 20 at the time.

The posts below have been moved from the Rogers thread for continuity:

Agabeg father was Edgar Clarence a mining engineer. Probably born in 1862 Father Arakiel Lazar Agabeg - a broker

IWF' baptism https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL%2FBIND%2F005137587%2F00055&parentid=BL%2FBIND%2FB%2F26831

EC's baptism https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL%2FBIND%2F005137042%2F00023&parentid=BL%2FBIND%2FB%2F149704. Calcutta. 

Seemed to have been christian. Suspect Anglo-Indian 

An Indian Army list has a Frank Joseph Agabeg as a Lt-Col in the Chota Nagpur Light Horse in 1912. He is appointed CBE later. He is EC's brother and thus IWF's uncle. 

The internet suggests Agabeg is Armenian and there was an Armenian community in Calcutta

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Agabeg father was Edgar Clarence a mining engineer. Probably born in 1862 Father Arakiel Lazar Agabeg - a broker

IWF' baptism https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL%2FBIND%2F005137587%2F00055&parentid=BL%2FBIND%2FB%2F26831

EC's baptism https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=BL%2FBIND%2F005137042%2F00023&parentid=BL%2FBIND%2FB%2F149704. Calcutta. 

Seemed to have been christian. Suspect Anglo-Indian 

An Indian Army list has a Frank Joseph Agabeg as a Lt-Col in the Chota Nagpur Light Horse in 1912. He is appointed CBE later. He is EC's brother and thus IWF's uncle. 

Thanks Mark, my curiosity was sparked by the thought of whether he might be Anglo-Indian.  I suspect that there’s a story there -  depending on how far down the generations it was from the original holder of the family name.  Even as late as WW2 Anglo-Indian officers such as John Masters we’re appalling treated, especially if they were noticeably dark.  Do you know if there are any photos of him?  

Edited 5 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[DavidOwen]

There may be photos out there as Ivan Agabeg was an actor by profession.

Back to John Rogers, he was more often than not absent, obviously not cut out to be a soldier. A shame he wasn't locked up or discharged sooner (although one absence did occur when he was supposedly in detention).

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, DavidOwen said:

There may be photos out there as Ivan Agabeg was an actor by profession.

Back to John Rogers, he was more often than not absent, obviously not cut out to be a soldier. A shame he wasn't locked up or discharged sooner (although one absence did occur when he was supposedly in detention).

The perennial infantry manning crisis, especially after 1916, but also during high tempo periods before that, made it very unlikely for an unwounded man to be discharged, regardless of his perceived worth as a soldier.  I was reminded of this in excerpts from the books I quoted, but also in ‘Blindfold and Alone’, another excellent publication on the same subject.

Was this our Agabeg I wonder?

Born

Ivan Wilmot Frank Agabeg
September 21, 1896  
Asansol, West Bengal, India

Died

November 22, 1967  (age 71) 
Cricklewood, London, England, UK

His most notable films were Passenger to London (1937), Dial 999 (1938) and Forbidden Music (1936).

It seems like it:

Agabeg IWF Ivan Wilmot Frank 12.09.1896 AIR76-1 AIR 76/3/95 425 AGABEG Agabeg Lt IWF Ivan Wilmot Frank 2nd Battalion South Lancashire Regt 2Lt. 2nd Battalion South Lancashire Regt

Lt. RAF Lt Medals WO 372/1/26112 239 AGABEG Agabeg IWF granted temp commn as 2Lt(Observer) and to be HonLt Gazette 18. 10398 59114 AGABEG Agabeg 2Lt(HLt) IWF 03.02.19 Observer Officer RAFL19 p2766 21978 AGABEG

“10 Sept 2018 — 0815 Scottish RAF ace pilot Charles Findlay and English observer Ivan Wilmot Frank Agabeg, in Bristol F.2b C4601, shoot down a Fokker D.VII.“ 

Edited 5 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[DavidOwen]

It is certainly Agabeg's history, what is the photo's provenance?

I think more than one enemy plane was shot down during his flying time?

[DavidOwen]

Six kills apparently http://www.theaerodrome.com and search for Agabeg.

(Perhaps he too needs his own thread)

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, DavidOwen said:

It is certainly Agabeg's history, what is the photo's provenance?

I think more than one enemy plane was shot down during his flying time?

The photo appears under the IMDb banner recording thespians of the silver screen, but there’s nothing more than that.  He certainly looks right.  I have learned that Agabeg is actually a Christian Armenian name, a race whose persecution led to a diaspora covering several periods.  Rather like Jews they seem to have had a strong presence in banking and the professions.  There are notable Agabeg family members in Calcutta (business and judiciary) and Hong Kong (from the USA - banking).  In respect of India see: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.281248/page/n7/mode/2up

55 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

Six kills apparently http://www.theaerodrome.com and search for Agabeg.

(Perhaps he too needs his own thread)

That must surely make him an ace if the pilot, but I think he was the observer for at least some? 

Edited 5 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[DavidOwen]

He was the observer on all cases, 3 different pilots.

newspaper cuttings have him as a leading man in plays  in Worthing (Sherlock Holmes).

[DavidOwen]

The Aerodrome forum lists him as an Ace with 6 victories.

[FROGSMILE]

31 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

The Aerodrome forum lists him as an Ace with 6 victories.

That’s interesting to learn, it’s not something I’d considered before, but it seems to suggest that in 2-seater fighters both pilot and observer shared the Ace status.  On reflection it makes sense, as there were guns firing forward (pilot) and rearward plus sides on a ring mount (observer).

NB.  WW2 clearly finished off his film career as there’s nothing after 1938.  He died in Cricklewood so might have had something to do with the film studio there.

Edited 5 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Mark1959]

His character's name in the Robber Symphony (1936) is Ivor Wilmot!

[DavidOwen]

1 minute ago, Mark1959 said:

His character's name in the Robber Symphony (1936) is Ivor Wilmot!

I think that is the stage name he used?

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

I think that is the stage name he used?

Yes, he appears to have used his first and second given names.

[Mark1959]

All

The above pic in Frogsmile is not him

After looking at several of the named films in IMDB. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lefs711m6Ak

Go 1:31:30 and play for a couple of minutes. He is the magistrate. He appears from 1:30:45 as the Magistrate. 

This man also appears In Passenger to London, Land without Music

Passenger to London is available on Amazon Prime. Sorry about the quality

 

 

 

Edited 5 September , 2022 by Mark1959

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Mark1959 said:

All

The above pic in Frogsmile is not him

After looking at several of the named films in IMDB. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lefs711m6Ak

Go 1:31:30 and play for a couple of minutes. He is the magistrate. He appears from 1:30:45 as the Magistrate. 

This man also appears In Passenger to London, Land without Music

Passenger to London is available on Amazon Prime. Sorry about the quality

 

 

 

I agree that’s him in the film footage Mark.  It seems odd that IMDb have got him wrong on their central website, but I know that mistakes can be made.  If you take the wig and the silly moustache off I wonder if it might be him as a younger man.  The photo from IMDb also appears as a publicity shot for one of the films mentioned in which Ivan Wilmot appears.  Ergo if it’s not him then I wonder which other actor in the film it might be?

Edited 5 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[topgun1918]

The photograph of Bristol Fighter B1146 is a red herring; it served with No 1 Squadron AFC in Egypt and has nothing to do with Agabeg, who served with No 88 Squadron on the Western Front.

Graeme