Cases of fathers buried by sons/sons buried by fathers

[tankengine888]

G’day!

I was thinking about how common it was for a father to be buried by his son or son buried by his father. I had heard of a case in WW2 where a father buried his son, I believe that was late 1945. I have since found another case in the AIF. John James Medley (986) was father to John James Medley (2662). The elder (986) was killed on the 14th May 1915. It is said his son (2662) buried him.

are there any other cases of this happening?

tank.

[The Scorer]

There's a very moving piece in "Up to Mametz" by Wyn Griffith dealing with the story of "Old Evans the Padre". 

The author tells of meeting Revd Evans (actually, I think, Revd Peter Roberts) looking for bodies to bury, not being able to find his own son. 

[Chasemuseum]

Not quite a case of actually burying his sons but still rather poignant.

Pte James William Baker 13Bn AIF #6708, born at Bathurst in about April 1874 but when he enlisted on the 23^rd August 1916 he put his age back to being born in1884.  He was married and living with his wife Lucy Elizabeth at Main Rd Bulli NSW, where he had been working as a coal miner.  They had three sons all who joined the AIF. He embarked on HMAT Port Nicholson on 22^nd August 1916, and joined the 13^th Bn AIF in France on 5^th March 1917.  He appears to have been adversely affected by his sons’ (Ernest & Herbert) capture during the assault on the Hindenburg Line (Battle of Bullecourt) and was and was detached to Headquarters 1 ANZAC Corps on April 27^th , in November 1917 he revealed his real age and applied for compassionate discharge.  On 8^th January he was attached to AIF HQ in London and was processed for return to Australia.  He was discharged on February 28^th 1918. 

Pte James William Baker (jnr) #4449 enlisted on 27^th September 1915.  He was a 21 year old coal miner (DOB Feb 1894).  He had been living at home and nominated his father as next of kin.  He embarked on HMAT Wondilla on 3^rd February 1916.  Subsequently he joined 4^th Battalion AIF in France on the 5^th November 1916.  He was struck by a shell fragment in the head fracturing his skull the same day and evacuated to the 36^th Casualty Clearing Station. He died at 36 CCS the following day, having also suffered a gunshot wound.

Pte Ernest Joseph Baker #6707 (called “tiny”) was born at Sunny Corner NSW 1897. He had been living with his parents and working as a coal miner.  He enlisted with his father on the 23^rd.  He also joined the 13^th Bn AIF in France on 5^th March 1917.  He was captured by the Germans on the 11^th April 1917 and spent the remainder of the war as a prisoner, being repatriated after the armistice. 

Pte Herbert Thomas Baker #6216 was born at Sunny Corner NSW 1897. He had been living with his parents and working as a coal miner.  He enlisted 6^th April 1916 and joined the 13^th Bn AIF in France on 2^nd January 1917.  He was wounded with a gunshot to the right leg and captured by the Germans on the 11^th April 1917 and spent the remainder of the war as a prisoner, being repatriated after the armistice.

Additionally a cousin #2561 Reginald Baker 13Bn of Sunny Corner Rd, Portland NSW was killed in 1917.

The rifle is probably a studio prop, a Martini-Enfield with a P1907 bayonet hung on the end.

 

 

[Michelle Young]

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/523979/henry-hutton-scott/
 

I think I read that this man was buried by his father. 

[Colin W Taylor]

One well-known example is Billy Congreve VC who had his father (a corps commander) attend his funeral.

C

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

The WD for the RHA, D Battery, has this entry for 8 September 1914:

"Lt. Gough, Lt Parker, Br. Bardell were buried at 9 pm that evening close to the big farm at Le Grand Clairet. General Gough (3rd Cavalry Brigade) and Lieut Gough (Indian Army) (brother) were present at the funeral."

The image of a father burying a son is always a poignant one, but, counter-intuitively, the father of Lieutenant J.B. Gough, and also his brother, were in some ways fortunate to have been able to learn the news of the death of Lieutenant Gough (who had died earlier on 8 September 1914) in time to attend his funeral later the same day, as most fathers who learned of their sons' deaths during WW1 were not able to attend their funerals, and frequently did not even know where they were buried, while - inevitably - most of the young men who did have a known grave did not have any family members present at their burial, as was the case with Lt. Parker and Br. Bardell.

[tankengine888]

Thank you for finding these,

it seems sad when you think about it, but then again (as the Lanc. Fus. said), on how most family probably couldn’t go to the funeral since they weren’t in France, etc.

these all tell an interesting story, so thank you.

Tank

[Peter Maxfield]

Father buried son, both named Albert Bloomfield and both serving with the 1st Canadian Mounted Rifles -

Mon., Apr 8, 1918     H.Q. T.25.B.2.3

BATTALION IN SUPPORT.  SITUTATION NORMAL

LIEUT Albert Cecil Cutting BLOOMFIELD (106092) was killed at 1:00 P.M. in Canada trench by a shell which made a direct hit on the trench.

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/mass-digitized-archives/circumstances-death-registers/Pages/item.aspx?PageID=32777

(CWGC): Son of Albert Edward and Mrs. Ethel Florence Bloomfield, of Parliament Buildings, Winnipeg, Manitoba. Enlisted Brandon (from Souris) Dec.23, 1914, in 1st Can. Mounted Rifles. Trumpeter Sergt. Major, 3 years with XII Manitoba Dragoons

Service Record - https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B0826-S041

and father:          https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B0826-S043

Capt. And Quartermaster Albert Edward Bloomfield: APR 5 1870 - FEB 19 1950. 23 years with Imperial Forces, S.A. 1900-1902. MiD.

Lieut. Albert Cecil Cutting Bloomfield (106092): JULY 10 1896 - APR 8 1918. Thelus Military Cemetery V.F.5. Staff 1st C.M.R.

Canada Trench was about 600m East of Vimy Railway Station (36c.T.20.b.)

Edited 26 August , 2022 by Peter Maxfield
Adding approximate location of Canada Trench

[Terry_Reeves]

Pioneer William George Manning of L Special Company RE attended the funeral of his son Pioneer Harry Manning also of L Company, at Trois Abres Cemetery near Steenwerck, Belgium. He was with Harry when he died at 2 Australian CCS on 3 June 1917, of gas poisoning.  William was later sent to work at the Special Factory Section at Coulogne, near Calais, producing phosgene.

I do wonder if  the transfer came about as the result of Harry’s death. The family were from Luton.

TR

Edited 24 August , 2022 by Terry_Reeves

[jay dubaya]

I have been researching Sheffield's war effort for over 20 years and the following always takes me to a moment of reflection. 

Sydney Smith was KiA on 1st September 1918, his battlefield grave was lost until found and identified by his father during the summer of 1922.

Sadly his service record is lost but a 1934 newspaper article describes the effort his father took to find him.

Reconstruction of Battle

How a Sheffield father found his son’s grave

Where the corn waves

A Sheffield father’s search for the unknown grave of his soldier son, a search which occupied nearly 18 months and cost £400, is recalled by the 73^rd birthday to-day of Mr JWH Smith, of 79 Bower Road, Sheffield.

Soon after the war Mr Smith, unable to obtain any information officially of the location of his son’s grave, got into touch by persistent enquiry with the chaplain who had buried his son.

They went out together, and by reconstructing the battle scene, were able to narrow down the search to an area of about 500 square yards.

It lay in the triangle between Le Transloy, Morval and Lesboeufs. Mr Smith then went to live in the area, and set to work with a gang of men probing the soil for places which had been disturbed. Eventually a trench grave was revealed in which Mr Smith’s son, Sydney, and several of his chums were buried.

The bodies were removed to Longueval Cemetery, but the spot is marked by a 12 foot oak cross, which was dedicated by the Bishop of Sheffield on 9^th August 1922. There it stands with the inscription: ‘This is Holy ground. A field of honour, where brave men died. Let others pause and think.’

The bodies of 18 men of the 2^nd Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers and 1 man of the South Wales Borderers, were found here through the persistent searching of the father of one of them.

This ground has been officially cleared, yet 68 bodies were found in the special search near this plot.

The owner of the land generously gave it to Mr Smith, and now, though it stands in the estate of a large corn field, one or two drills are always left open so that it can be reached from the road at all times of the year.

At one period Mr Smith made as many as nine visits a year to the battlefields, and he has taken out innumerable parties and individuals, giving them the benefit of his experience, both in travelling in France and in finding graves in the war cemeteries. He has taken a leading part in all efforts fittingly to commemorate Sheffield’s fallen heroes, particularly the Sheffield Serre Memorial Park.

Owing to ill-health Mr Smith was not able to conduct the Whitsuntide pilgrimage to Serre this year.

He is well known by all the War Graves officials in France, and is a personal friend of Sir Fabian Ware, the chairman of the IWGC, who once described Mr Smith as ‘the salt of the earth’.

[Chasemuseum]

Hi JD,

Thank-you

Ross

[tankengine888]

9 hours ago, jay dubaya said:

I have been researching Sheffield's war effort for over 20 years and the following always takes me to a moment of reflection. 

Sydney Smith was KiA on 1st September 1918, his battlefield grave was lost until found and identified by his father during the summer of 1922.

Sadly his service record is lost but a 1934 newspaper article describes the effort his father took to find him.

Reconstruction of Battle

How a Sheffield father found his son’s grave

Where the corn waves

A Sheffield father’s search for the unknown grave of his soldier son, a search which occupied nearly 18 months and cost £400, is recalled by the 73^rd birthday to-day of Mr JWH Smith, of 79 Bower Road, Sheffield.

Soon after the war Mr Smith, unable to obtain any information officially of the location of his son’s grave, got into touch by persistent enquiry with the chaplain who had buried his son.

They went out together, and by reconstructing the battle scene, were able to narrow down the search to an area of about 500 square yards.

It lay in the triangle between Le Transloy, Morval and Lesboeufs. Mr Smith then went to live in the area, and set to work with a gang of men probing the soil for places which had been disturbed. Eventually a trench grave was revealed in which Mr Smith’s son, Sydney, and several of his chums were buried.

The bodies were removed to Longueval Cemetery, but the spot is marked by a 12 foot oak cross, which was dedicated by the Bishop of Sheffield on 9^th August 1922. There it stands with the inscription: ‘This is Holy ground. A field of honour, where brave men died. Let others pause and think.’

The bodies of 18 men of the 2^nd Bn Royal Welsh Fusiliers and 1 man of the South Wales Borderers, were found here through the persistent searching of the father of one of them.

This ground has been officially cleared, yet 68 bodies were found in the special search near this plot.

The owner of the land generously gave it to Mr Smith, and now, though it stands in the estate of a large corn field, one or two drills are always left open so that it can be reached from the road at all times of the year.

At one period Mr Smith made as many as nine visits a year to the battlefields, and he has taken out innumerable parties and individuals, giving them the benefit of his experience, both in travelling in France and in finding graves in the war cemeteries. He has taken a leading part in all efforts fittingly to commemorate Sheffield’s fallen heroes, particularly the Sheffield Serre Memorial Park.

Owing to ill-health Mr Smith was not able to conduct the Whitsuntide pilgrimage to Serre this year.

He is well known by all the War Graves officials in France, and is a personal friend of Sir Fabian Ware, the chairman of the IWGC, who once described Mr Smith as ‘the salt of the earth’.

I have to make this short and sweet, I’m currently sitting in my math lesson..

it’s quite a remarkable story, it’s one of those people who actually went to find his son! Out of curiosity, did Smith survive his illness?

anyways I’m off,

Tank

[jay dubaya]

On 25/08/2022 at 03:52, tankengine888 said:

it’s quite a remarkable story, it’s one of those people who actually went to find his son! Out of curiosity, did Smith survive his illness?

He made his last pilgrimage to the battlefields in 1933 and died aged 79 in October 1940 - just two months before the Luftwaffe blitzed Sheffield, the Steel City.

The CWGC Archive has a handful of cases where the father went in search of his sons grave, in most cases there is desperation of closure for the families. One case in particular exposes chaotic burial practices and how a known wounded man could simply disappear in the medical chain. During these searches for lost sons and as mentioned in the Smith case above, other previously unknown fallen were found under ground already searched - one can only imagine with the death toll of missing - the more you look the more you find.