John William Gleave

[big jar of wasps]

Hi,

I`m doing some research on a guy from my village, that I know served in the Boer War. I have his service papers for this period, but wondered if he had any service in WW1, he certainly would have been of the age for service. But as his papers only cover the Boer War. Is it usual to have two lots of papers, or if he had any WW1 service would his papers have been linked?

Here is what I have.......

2754 Trp John William Gleave 22nd Cheshire Coy Imperial Yeomanry

John William Gleave, was born in St Asaph around 1882. He lived at ` Mount Pleasant` on Mount Road. He was a painter and decorator by trade, he served a 4 year apprentiship with Mr Peacock of St George.

On the 18th February 1901, John travelled to Chester and enlisted in the 22nd Cheshire Company of the Imperial Yeomanry, part of the 2nd Battalion of the Imperial Yeomanry, his age on enlistment is give as 20 years and 3 months. His papers described him as 5`4 1/4” tall, with a fresh complexion, blue eyes and dark brown hair. Religion Church of England.

On the 8th March 1901, he arrived in South Africa. Joining the 22nd on or around the11th April 1901, at Brandfort, in the Orange River Colony and continued to serve in South Africa till the 27th September 1901. John was discharged from the Army on the 23rd November 1901 at Shornecliffe Barracks as being unfit for further service.

He is entitled to the Queen’s South Africa with 3 clasps, Cape Colony, Orange Free State and South Africa 1901.

John died aged 56 years of age, on the 30th December 1938 and is buried in Mount Road Cemetery, along with his Wife Hannah Gleaves aged 61 10th May 1941, and son John William Gleaves aged 66, 30th January 1980.

The first soldiers of the Cheshire Yeomanry arrived in South Africa on the 25th February 1900, landing at Cape Town. However, from the Units history and Gleave`s service papers, I have pieced his involvement in the campaign as thus…….

On or about the 8th March 1901, Trp Gleave arrived in Cape Town, South Africa. Arriving along with 12,000 other Yeomen, to act as replacements for the Yeoman already serving in the campaign. The Yeoman who had been serving since 25th Feb 1900, had become disillusioned with the war and the glamour of it all had long since faded into the background. England seemed far more preferable to marching in the Karoo desert.

While the 22nd was resting at Brandfort, on the 11th April 1901, they were joined by a draft of 27 men under Lt Price. All the men cam from Cheshire ( I assume that Gleave, was one of these men, as the only other replacements to arrive at this time, were 48 men all from London).

On the 22nd April, the 22nd Coy, left Brandfort to begin their last operation in South Africa, they were accompanied by the new arrivals. They were given the job, of clearing all the farms in the area of Winburg, Senekal and Vaal Kop. It was no easy task as there where many Boers in the vicinity. The Boers were now beginning to feel the effects of the removal of their sources of supply and their efforts to interfere with the British Operations, became more determined each week. The policy in the area was always to remove the occupants to a refugee camp (the first concentration camps), and never leave anyone on a farm.

In spite of frequent contact with the Boers, the Company survived the next 18 days without casualties. Then on the morning of the 10th May they arrived at Virginia Sidings. The Cheshire Yeomanry`s operations in South Africa were over. Gleave continued to serve in South Africa, until September, I have been unable to ascertain details of this part of his service. But I can confirm that his health failed, as was so often the case in the war, more soldiers died of sickness and disease, than by enemy action. He returned to England and was discharged at Shorncliffe in the November. He then returned to St Asaph.

This is were my research ends, except to say that he died and was buried in St Asaph, in 1932. If anyone has any additional details, I’d very much like to hear them. I have as yet, not been able to find a picture of Gleave, but again, if anyone has one, I’d very much like to see it.

There is not a lot written about the activities of the 22nd Co but they did form part of Col Thorneycroft’s column that took part in the operations in the Free State in May-June 1901. Here they watched the line of outposts on the Modder River during one of General Bruce Hamilton’s drives where they cleared the South-western part of the Free State. Later they were also involved in similar drive in the North-western Free State and in the Western Transvaal.

The operations in the North-Western Free State took place in the winter of 1901. (That is if he was still part of Thorne croft’s column)They were employed along the Fauresmith -Edenburg Road once again during one of Bruce Hamilton's operations. Their duty as Amery puts it was " to raid and ravage from their several centres and as far as possible to push into the 'corral ' all the Boers in the area" By the time Thorneycroft's column had moved to the North-Eastern Free State and Western Transvaal Gleave had already left for home

As far as I`m aware, only his QSA exists, but this is unmounted. Stories from the village folk who remember him, from when they were children, tell of him wearing his medal, whilst sitting by the river feeding the birds.

If anyone could confirm whether he had any WW1 service I would be most grateful.

Gordon.

[John_Hartley]

Gordon

Have you had a nosy at the Cheshire Yeomanry book. Can't remember the full title - something about the "last regiment to fight with swords".

It may well mention him. Found one of my local chaps in it with pre-WW1 service before he transferred to the Cheshire Rgt.

John

[Terry_Reeves]

Gordon

The Medal Card Index at the NA shows three John W Gleave's ; Cheshire Regiment. King's Liverpool and RGA respectively.

It is possible that your man could have a separate set of documents for WW1. If they still survive, the front page of the attestation document should tell you whether he had any previous service and who with, providing he declared it of course.

Terry Reeves

[big jar of wasps]

Cheers Terry, given the fact that Gleave surved in the Cheshire Yeomanry, during the Boer War, I`d like to think that he served in the Cheshire Regiment in the Great War, if it is indeed the same man. I wonder what are the oods of having to John W Gleave`s serving in the same Regiment, during two wars? Having said that he may well have served in the Liverpool Regt or the RGA, but would like to think that this is unlikely.

Cheers John, do you have access to this book? Would you be in a postion to check him out for me?

[John_Hartley]

Gordon

The copy I consulted was at the Cheshires Museum, ages ago. However, I see that Stockport Central Library has a copy. It's listed as being "in the basement" - so I don't know if I can just turn up. But I'll have a try - I'm in the town centre in about a week.

The full title is "The Cheshire (Earl of Chester's) Yeomanry, 1898 - 1967 - the last regiment to fight on horse". Author Richard Verdin

I knew they were last at fighting someway or another.

John

[big jar of wasps]

Cheers John, that would be great. I`ll have a bash on the MIC website, to confirm whether the guy on that is it fact a John William, will let you know.

Gordon.

[John_Hartley]

Gordon

No mention of your man in the book's narrative (only officers and those who died get a reference).

There is an appendix which contain s nominal roll for 1900-01, which includes Tpr J Gleave, 1730. No other mention I'm afraid and , of course, I'm not sure if this the same man.

As you've already identified "The Business" in this matter is "5000 miles with the Cheshire Yeomanry......". Apparently much more comprehensive. Have you tried the Cheshire's regimental museum for a copy? Or Cheshire County Council "central library" or, say the central libraries of Liverpool or Manchester

[big jar of wasps]

Hi Gordon,

Just got your message on my return from the USA. Could be. He would have had a different number from that in the Imp.Yeo. Might be worth a check of papers etc. or ask at the Museum re his number.

I have some men with similar numbers 4251, 4256, 4325, (all 4th Batt. men with QSAs) 4045, 4823 5th Batt. men. with WW1 pairs but they could well be ex Boer War men.

4th Battalion recruit around Macclefield & Glossop, while 5th is Chester.

Hope thuis helps a bit.

Kind regards,

Mark

[big jar of wasps]

Has anyone got any form of access, which might be able to solve this puzzle?