TEW Posted 27 July , 2022 Share Posted 27 July , 2022 Saps are intermittent emplacements running out from the front line, usually a fairly short distance. I can think of a few examples where the pioneers had dug tunnels from the front line which had to be broken open for the 7.30am assault. Some of these were for trench mortar batteries. Others EG. 29th Division Pioneers dug during the previous night a trench to connect to the Sunken Lane (in no man's land) for the Lancashire Fusiliers' to gather at their start point. The actual saps may well have existed for some time and could have been dug by various units. Adjusting the existing saps or creating new ones overnight for the assault is more likely down to Pioneers. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 27 July , 2022 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2022 TEW...Thank you for this... Will the SAP be dug like a tunnel with an opening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 27 July , 2022 Share Posted 27 July , 2022 There's a diagram of a trench section with sap here. https://spartacus-educational.com/FWWsapping.htm Not really my area of knowledge really but a sap could have different uses. Middlebrook gives 14 divisions for the front line 1/7/6. Some holding 2 miles of front line. In places there may be a sap every 50 yards. That must stack up to a fair few saps! As to construction, given the number of possible saps for 1/7/16 there could be various methods including open or tunnelled entrances, open ones covered over etc. There's a previous topic that may be of interest regarding purpose. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 27 July , 2022 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2022 TEW.... Thank you so much for this information.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 27 July , 2022 Admin Share Posted 27 July , 2022 19 hours ago, mikereme said: Could you please elaborate when the pioneers dig Saps? Is this different to a defensive trench? 46 minutes ago, mikereme said: Will the SAP be dug like a tunnel with an opening? As defined above by @TEW the saps were pushed forward as in the diagram Prior to the assault on the 1st July "Russian Saps" were created. The difference between these and that shown in the diagram was that they were covered, effectively creating a tunnel like trench. Immediately prior to the assault they were uncovered andthe tactic was for men to move forward from these saps when the barrage lifted. The theory being they would only have a relatively short distance to cover before the defending troops were able to organise themselves. In some places on the 1st July it proved to be a successful tactic but not so elsewhere. I've previously referred to the 46th Division, (tbh the assault on the 1st July was on such a long front and with such mixed results I am more interested in how the TF Divisions fared around Gommecourt a very small part of the action on that day). The Pioneers of the 46th Division were the 1st Battalion Monmouthshire Division, their war diary (WO95/2679/1 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354489 ) details the construction of four Russian Saps at Fonquevillers. Work commenced on the 30th May, and continued throughout June to the 23rd, the diary records progress each day, around twenty feet. On 23rd June they were withdrawn prior to the artillery bombardment. By this time they were thigh deep in mud and after being withdrawn had baths and rneeded replacement kit. On the 27th two companies were directed to open up the saps. The weather meant the assault was postponed on the 28th July and on the night of the 29th the Pioneers were ordered by the GOC 46th Division to extend the saps by means of open trench to within 100 yards of the German front line. On the 30th they managed to extend 1 and 2 by 60 yards; 3 came under heavy artillery fire and it was impossible to work and the party directed to 4 never reached it due to congestion in the assembly trenches and what the diary records as 'deep slush'. There is a far more detailed account if interested in the war diary which can be downloaded for free if you register with TNA. Where the roof was covered by timber opening it up meant that each man working on the trench had to take down three yards of timber which was then used to support the wall, effectively turning it into a communication trench. This work, or similar preparations were happening all along the Somme front prior to the 1st July as referenced above. Attached is scan of a sketch plan from Mitchison showing the deployment of Pioneer Battalions on the 1st July 1916 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 27 July , 2022 Author Share Posted 27 July , 2022 This is interesting.....and this comes to my 2nd Question...SAPS were used to get close to the enemy prior to H hour...also protected the troops from the Artillery fire. Great thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 27 July , 2022 Share Posted 27 July , 2022 There's great variety all along the British front. Some saps may get men 20 yards closer and only offer minimal protection for a short period. At other locations men went 'over the top' or had to move up to the front line across open ground, not via trench systems. You could get a copy of Middlebrook's book at a bargain price. Diaries from TNA are free at present. You could pick a division, brigade or battalion and have a diary spree. The ones I've seen can run to 100+ pages for the plans and preparation. The diaries usually have a narrative of events for 1/7/16 which might help with question 2. The plan was for the barrage to destroy the enemy defences so the infantry could walk in an orderly fashion and seize those defences. How many battalions believed that? At what point was is obvious it wasn't going to be like that? https://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Day-Somme-July-1916/dp/014006883X/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?crid=STHBE7JFKMFN&keywords=martin+middlebrook+somme&qid=1658933839&sprefix=martin+middlebrook%2Caps%2C712&sr=8-7 TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyacinth1326 Posted 28 July , 2022 Share Posted 28 July , 2022 Peter Barton's books on the Somme and Arras campaigns covers these issues in significant detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 29 July , 2022 Author Share Posted 29 July , 2022 Hello Everyone.... What can I say to all those who replied to my post...thank you so much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 31 July , 2022 Admin Share Posted 31 July , 2022 On 29/07/2022 at 06:36, mikereme said: Hello Everyone.... What can I say to all those who replied to my post...thank you so much.... You're welcome As an aside the TV Channel PBS America often repeats Peter Barton's three part documentary 'The Somme from Both Sides of the Wire' it was on again last night. In the first episode he enters and walks down one of the surviving 'Russian Saps' created by tunnellers on the Southern part of the front where on July 1st they were used with great success. I think these were a bit more sophisticated than those created by the pioneers and the tunnellers found the chalk more suitable than the slushing through mud in the North. Well worth a watch, and also taking on his comments that he campaign was about men, not numbers or statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 31 July , 2022 Share Posted 31 July , 2022 I don't think this was mentioned but four saps were also used to pre- position Livens Large Gallery Flame Projectors. Designed by Catain William Livens RE, they were56 ft long, weighed 2.5 tons and required a huge number of men to transport and assemble. To fire this weapon it's nozzle was pushed up through the ground, the fuel ignited on exit. It had an 8 man crew and fired in bursts of 3 to 8 seconds. I'm not sure how it was aimed I expect a comms line to an observer. The Russian saps, those used to exit men near to the enemy line was opened with a small explosive device... I'm pretty sure I got this from the diary of 183 Tunneling Company and expanded with a little research. There was a programme a few years ago where a Livens projector was made from plans, possibly on utube but visually a frightening device. Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikereme Posted 31 July , 2022 Author Share Posted 31 July , 2022 I think I seen something on time team on thus a few years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 31 July , 2022 Share Posted 31 July , 2022 1 minute ago, mikereme said: I think I seen something on time team on thus a few years ago... Very likely I just remember a dig which found evidence of a siting.....it's got me now I'll have to find it... Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 31 July , 2022 Share Posted 31 July , 2022 Courtesy of Utube, a Time Team special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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