CANUCKS

[Guest JIM EDWARDS]

Was somewhat amused to read of the relaxed discipline in the Canadian Corps in 1914-15 from the following story:

A Canadian colonel addressing his battalion. "See here boys, an English general is coming round. Stand up straight in line, quit spitting - and for Christ's sake don't call me Alf !"

It was explained , however, that they voluntarily exchanged this style for iron discipline soon after.

[jhill]

Was somewhat amused to read of the relaxed discipline in the Canadian Corps in 1914-15 from the following story:

A Canadian colonel addressing his battalion. "See here boys, an English general is coming round. Stand up straight in line, quit spitting - and for Christ's sake don't call me Alf !"

It was explained , however, that they voluntarily exchanged this style for iron discipline soon after.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This may have happened, for anything I known to the contrary! However, it is more likely an extension of a famous cartoon in "Punch" , which is much as you describe, but which was published much earlier, during the South African War. I am afraid I cannot give you a more precise reference.

[CROONAERT]

This story has also been attributed to Australian troops (amongst others). Looks to be more joke than truth.

Dave.

[Desmond7]

The 'don't call me Alf/Bert/Fred - definitely attributed to Aussies in what I've read.

Des

[Guest JIM EDWARDS]

I suspected as much.

Here' another : English Officer on liason visit to neighbouring Aussie batallion asked a soldier lounging outside a dugout if he would direct him to his commanding officer; opon which the soldier flipped back the curtain and yelled "Fred - there's a bloke here to see you".

I assume this attitude to authority was never tolerated by "English" officers, indeed I would not think it would be contemplated by Tommy in view of his probable social background 90 years ago.

[Borden Battery]

The soldiers in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, except for the very late stages of the war, were all volunteers and as such had joined to kill Germans and not march and polish buttons. In my readings, the Canadians tended to be slack by the standards of the "Parade Ground Canaries" but were very serious when in combat - they really did not lose any major battles from Vimy Ridge until the end of the war.

Nevertheless, here is an excerpt from a small book on the 1st Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigade [The Motors] in early March 1918 which indicates they did have their fun. Of course, less than three weeks later this Brigade of 350 men would stop a German division at Clery-sur-Somme on 23-25 March and sustain very heavy casualties - some units being almost wiped out before regrouping.

============= The Glory of Their Times ===============

Early in March, [General] Currie decided to inspect the Motors. The date was set for March 11th. At about two in the afternoon, Currie arrived in his open touring car. The weather during the early part of March was excellent. "More like September than March," Currie noted in his diary. The Motors had dutifully lined up for the inspection. At best they were not the most disciplined or neatest of soldiers. In fact, one of the officers was quite concerned about the sergeant in his battery. The man had obviously been drinking during the morning and, although quite capable of performing his duties, his breath reeked of liquor. "For God's sake keep your mouth closed if he comes near you," he was told. Currie had a reputation for admiring well turned-out troops. As the tall burly general walked slowly along the line of troops formed up in front of their vehicles all were aware of the offending NCO. Currie stopped and asked the commanding officer for the sergeant's name. Walking up to the unfortunate man he asked, "Sergeant, what are the duties of the men under you?" No answer. The sergeant held his breath. "Sergeant," repeated Currie, "what do your men do?" The NCO's eyes darted toward his officer, who shrugged. "They do what I bloody well tell them to do!" exploded the sergeant.

That evening Currie noted in his private diary, "…[/i] in afternoon rode to Verdel to inspect Motor Machine Gun Brigade-found it bad."

Five days after the unfortunate inspection, Currie had lunch with two cavalry officers, Brig.-Gen. Seely and Maj. W.K. Walker. Walker, a Scot and hard disciplinarian, and a man in appearance, not unlike Currie himself, had been picked to take over from Lt.-Col.. Wilkin as officer commanding the Motors under Col. Brutinel. Machine-guns were nothing new to Walker. Although he was in the cavalry, he had spent most of his was service in a dismount cavalry unit called the Mounted Machine Gun Squadron. Walker was given Currie's views on the Motors. They were to be tightened-up and reorganized.

SOURCE: Alex Lynch, "The Glory of Their Times - March 1918", 2001, Lawrence Publications, Kingston. p 19

[2ndCMR]

If that was March 11th 1918, either their appearance had nothing to do with their fighting qualities, or a great deal changed in a few weeks, as they covered themselves with glory obstructing the German advance after the collapse of the 5th Army. I believe their casualties were about 75% in a few weeks, and their role was instrumental.

[Borden Battery]

Here is an excerpt from "The Brutinel Tapes - 18 October 1962" as presented on the CEF Study Group discussion forum. The quotation is from Brig-General Raymond Brutinel.

Tape C.7 22 March 1918 - 1st Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigade

On the 22 of March, 1918, Brigadier General Dill, then in charge of "Operations" at British G.H.Q., called by telephone. He wanted to know if the Motor Brigade was out of the line, and if in the line, if it could be relieved promptly and made ready for an early start the following morning.

He explained that he expected the employment of the Machine Gun Brigade in the area where the Germans had broken through and that instructions would be awaiting the Brigade at the City Hall of Amiens.

He also told me to report personally to the British G.H.Q. as nearly as possible after the departure of the Brigade.

A formal note would be sent to Sir Arthur Currie respecting these matters.

I advised immediately Brigadier General N. W. Webber, then B.G.G.S., Canadian Corps of the instructions received and he gave orders for the relief of two Batteries of the Motor Brigade then in the line near Vimy.

I telephoned ordering all steps necessary to enable the Machine Gun Brigade to leave early the following morning, with a full complement of munitions and supplies.

At daybreak on the 23rd I inspected the Brigade and headed South.

I inspected the Brigade again near Doulens, reminded all ranks that the days we had been waiting for were at hand and expressed my confidence that the Brigade would give a very good account of itself in the fierce fighting awaiting it.

I ordered Lieut. Col. W. K. Walker in command, to call at the City Hall in Amiens where he would receive instructions regarding his future operation, and I instructed my Staff to make all the arrangements necessary with the bases in France and in England to permit a constant flow of trained Machine Gunners to maintain the fighting strength of the Machine Gun Brigade about to be severely engaged.

By midnight on the 23rd all Batteries had travelled 100 miles and were in action on a 35 mile front East of Amiens.

The appreciation of its work by Sir Arthur Currie is here reported "Verbatim" :

"The 1st Canadian Motor Machine Gun Brigade (Lt-Col. W.K. Walker), under orders of the Fifth and later of the Fourth Army, was ordered, to fight a rearguard action to delay the advance of the enemy and to fill dangerous gaps on the Army fronts. For 19 days that Unit was continuously in action North and South of the Somme fighting against overwhelming odds. Using to the utmost its great mobility, it fought over 200 square miles of territory. It in difficult to appraise to its correct extent the influence, material and moral, that the 40 machine guns of that Unit had in the events which were then taking place. The losses suffered amounted to about 75 % of the trench strength of the Unit and to keep it in being throughout that fighting it was reinforced daily with personnel of the Infantry branch of the Canadian Machine Gun Corps."

The 56-man Borden Motor Machine Gun Battery delayed the advance of a German division near Clery-sur-Somme and suffered 51 casualties in part of one day. I believe the 15th Cheshires assisted the Bordens for part of this time.

Borden Battery

[Zipperheads9]

My memory is a little fuzzy of the book but Dancocks has a book with a story similar .

At Passhendale a Brittish Line officer was checking his unit senties and wandered over to the Canucks on his flank .The Officer called for the pass and recieved no answer after the second attempt the the Canuck respond with will you shut the F''k up you wake the neighbor's ,to the officer's shock. He then wandered back to his own lines.