Dublin born soldier in Liverpool Pals - scant info to try and identify him

[davidbohl]

Pte or L/Cpl James O'Neill  #29673 KLR CWGC

This chap has been a toughie, born and resided in Dublin, but no immediate family as his Soldiers Effects went to his "Uncle" Patrick John, this may be a loose term or James may well be his nephew.

No pension record as far as I can see.

SDGW

Name:	James O'Neill
Birth Place:	Dublin
Residence:	Dublin
Death Date:	20 Jul 1916
Death Place:	France and Flanders
Enlistment Place:	Liverpool
Rank:	Private
:	The King's (Liverpool) Regiment
Battalion:	19th Battalion
Regimental Number:	29673
Type of Casualty:	Died of wounds

 

I've studied this Patrick John O'Neill, a good family tree on Ancestry https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/158295281/person/292354327968/facts

PJ certainly has parents that both died before ww1, a brother William could be the father of Pte James O'Neill.

Hopefully the GWF experts can latch onto him in some way

many thanks

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[corisande]

Here is a strange one,  29633 in Kings Liverpool has a service record - click . But he survived!

Your man is 29673

[davidbohl]

4 hours ago, corisande said:

Here is a strange one,  29633 in Kings Liverpool

I can't bring 29633 up on Ancestry in the King's

 

The BNA confirms his death

 

 

[corisande]

1 hour ago, davidbohl said:

I can't bring 29633 up on Ancestry in the King's

Cos its on FmP

[TullochArd]

Soldiers Effects does indeed state quite clearly "Uncle and Sole Leg." - Sole Legatee as in sole beneficiary to any monies due. 

The War Gratuity payment was therefore made to Patrick John but as you note there is no mention of a Pension Record.  I understand this is because the War Gratuity was payable to able bodied dependants regardless but a Pension was only payable to dependants previously declared as financially "dependant" on the soldier.  This seems not to be the case here hence no Pension/Pension Record.

A lonely fellow no doubt about that.

Edited 22 July , 2022 by TullochArd

[doyle3]

 

 

The database put together by @museumtomgives the address of P J O'Neill as Kinsealy House, Portmarnock. who looks to have died a bachelor :

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/238490854/patrick-john-oneill

The data for James (and his uncle's address) looks to have come from James's will

http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/reels/sw/O'NeillJ_E236560.pdf

 

The house on the 1901 and 1911 census :

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Kinsealy/Kinsaley/1266229/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Kinsaley/Kinsaley/2871/

A recording exists with the last O'Neill at who owned the house

https://source.southdublinlibraries.ie/bitstream/10599/11083/3/fingal catalogue.pdf

 

Patrick John O'Neill's father John died in 1868 according to the Findagrave entry. John's will mentions a son James who is not listed on the Findagrave entry

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014888/005014888_00218.pdf

PJ and a couple of other siblings (e.g. James and Fergus) appear in this tree

https://www.geni.com/people/James-O-Neill/6000000172410106446

James is shown as died 1902 and will mentions the brothers names, later of 39 Rathgar Rd.

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014912/005014912_00465.pdf

His occupation is Farmer and Factor which tallies with a 1901 census entry on Rathgar Rd. Age is out a bit but not unusual in Irish census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmines/Rathgar_Road/1297248/

 

A son James Francis O'Neill (not James Francis Ryan for SPR buffs); wife as Rose

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rathmines/Rathgar_Road/1297248/

 

A birth record for a James O'Neill with a father James and mother Rose nee Daly in Rathgar

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02830/2037690.pdf

 

The marriage for James O'Neill and Rose Daly have Rose with a Kinsealey address, and looks to be James's siblings aw witnesses

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11110/8066505.pdf

 

Not conclusive that James Francis O'Neill is 29673 but this is a James who would be a nephew of PJ O'Neill

 

 

 

 

 

[davidbohl]

32 minutes ago, doyle3 said:

Not conclusive that James Francis O'Neill is 29673 but this is a James who would be a nephew of PJ O'Neill

 

Thanks @doyle3 brilliant

as I said in o/p the experts would come up trumps, I'll peruse all tomorrow but it looks like another one of our 3200 Liverpool Pals with a +ve ID

Dave

[doyle3]

This appears to be the death of the brother listed with James in the 1901 census. Address is given as Kinsealey House.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1937/04790/4287714.pdf

 

There is a Private family tree on ancestry which has the the brother

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/pt/RequestTreeAccess.aspx?tid=107433789&pid=210058549979

 

The mother appears to have died in 1906; death registered by James O'Neill, son.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05548/4556537.pdf

The lead for the death came via a tree that looks to focus on her side of the family. The children don't get listed

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/179054540/person/102326080292/facts?_phsrc=mGq4307&_phstart=successSource

 

 

[museumtom]

Stay with me lads and lassies...

Who remembers Charles Haughey?. Our late beloved Taoiseach who advised us to tighten our belts as we are living waaaayyy  beyond our means.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/haughey-daughter-refused-go-ahead-for-kinsealy-house-1.480802

[corisande]

His death cert would confirm his age, which does not seem to appear on his death records

[doyle3]

1 hour ago, museumtom said:

Stay with me lads and lassies...

Who remembers Charles Haughey?. Our late beloved Taoiseach who advised us to tighten our belts as we are living waaaayyy  beyond our means.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/haughey-daughter-refused-go-ahead-for-kinsealy-house-1.480802

Yes, saw that when looking around.

One of the issues at the back of the mind is that the family seemed to be well off. James's father and others seemed to make donations to the IPP - potentially connected enough to have got James a commission.

 

[davidbohl]

12 hours ago, doyle3 said:

James is shown as died 1902 and will mentions the brothers names, later of 39 Rathgar Rd.

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014912/005014912_00465.pdf

I noticed Patrick has J.P after his name, so could this be him as the Chairman in this Dublin Council meeting?

From the BNA

 

[doyle3]

17 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

I noticed Patrick has J.P after his name, so could this be him as the Chairman in this Dublin Council meeting?

From the BNA

 

Yes. Think PJ was elected in Swords district. A few newspapers refer to his JP status.

Possibly the first head of DCC

https://www.jstor.org/stable/30101731