German? (Blue) Frock Coat? Genuine/Theatre/Fantasy?

[4thGordons]

I recently bought what I thought might be a Dunkelblau "Uberrock" (Frock-coat) now I have it in hand I am wondering about it.

The good -- the construction and materials (the stitched lining and closures at throat and the internal belt etc. all suggest original to me) There are no stampings that I can find but the sleeves are fully lined and everything is fairly similar in style to another Dunkleblau tunic I own.

 

The bad -- the epaulettes have clearly been replaced -- they are stitched in but attached with what appear to be much more modern (plastic) buttons.  The epaulettes themselves look very new (especially the red felt under them) although they are of reasonably high quality.

The ugly -- there is minor mothing (not too obvious) and some odd tacking/modification within the cuffs - this is present on both sides and the materials look "old" - I don't think this is recent. The epaulettes appear too short (given what looks to be the original button placement beyond where they end now -- and the plastic button used on the epaulettes)

 

It is a little crumpled currently and I haven't spent any time at all on it other than unpacking it  from the box it was stuffed into and putting it on a hanger. Suggestions as to what it is/was and how best to proceed (eg with epaulettes etc.) would be appreciated.

See pics

TIA

Chris

 

 

[Chasemuseum]

This is from our collection. I believe this is an army clergyman's frock coat, for a priest or pastor attached to a regiment, the colour is a little darker, it has Beamten buttons and no shoulder straps but it shows very similar construction.

 

 

 

[GreyC]

The person who wore this uniform was employed by a state railway, probably Prussian. German military clergy uniforms looked quite differently.

GreyC

Edited 24 July , 2022 by GreyC

[GreyC]

On 18/07/2022 at 13:16, 4thGordons said:

Suggestions as to what it is

Regardless of what it was, it is now a Bavarian lieutenant´s uniform, called an Überrock, 10th Bavarian infantry regiment.

GreyC

 

Edited 24 July , 2022 by GreyC

[4thGordons]

Thanks both!

@GreyC Just to clarify are you saying the jacket posted by chasemuseum is a railways employee jacket rather than mine?

Thoughts on the shoulder straps? I think they are obvious replacements/possible reproductions.  I thought of looking for a set of original shoulder boards to replace them with but that looks to be a rather expensive proposition so perhaps I will leave these in place and change the buttons only - would it originally have had the same sort of flat metal buttons as the rest of the uniform on the shoulders or something else? Given my very limited tailoring skills - replacing the plastic buttons with an original type and generally tidying up and cleaning the Uberrock would at least give a piece that could be displayed.

Thanks again both

Chris

[AOK4]

The shoulder boards look okay to me from the pics, it's the buttons that need to be replaced.

[GreyC]

13 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

Just to clarify

Hi,

the remarks with regards to the railway-employee were made towards chasemuseum. The buttons to hold the Schulterstücke (in contrast to Schulterklappen for Mannschaften and Unteroffiziere)on your Überrock are the same as the ones on the front, I am not sure about their size, though. It LOOKS the same size on photos, but I haven´t seen an original yet. I agree with Jan w. regard to originality as far as I can tell.

Have a nice Sunday,

GreyC

Edited 24 July , 2022 by GreyC

[4thGordons]

Apologies for the delayed response -- thank you very much @GreyC and @AOK4.

I have replaced the shoulder-board buttons with some more appropriate ones (they are slightly smaller than those on the front but the difference is not obvious to the naked eye and I had these!) I am searching for an identical button to replace the lower right front button that is missing.

Thanks for your expertise and comments

Chris

[AOK4]

I have plenty of buttons like that, unfortunately for you in relic condition...

[cmwyder]

Hello, I have a very similar frock coat that came in an auction with 2 other Imperial German coats. One was very early, Franco-Prussian era and came with several medals including an 1870 war service medal and a 50 year Bavarian long service medal. This one that is similar to yours, was advertised as a Prussian officer’s frock coat. It has all Berlin and Potsdam buttons. It is named and has some markings which I cannot identify.  It did have a Prussian 25 year long service medal.  It is very well made and doesn’t look like it has been altered. Can’t find it anywhere, except for your example. Any thoughts?