Ellis Vair Reid

[Red Gate]

I wonder please if anyone can help me with this query.  
 

Flight Sub-Lieut Reid is known for his service with 10 Naval.  His service record at TNA starts in 1916 and it would seem that his aviator certificate was issued on 6 July 1916.  However, Cole and Cheesman in their book, “Air Defence of Britain 1914-18” have Flight Sub-Lieut EV Reid as flying a home defence sortie in Caudron G3 1594 on 3 July 1915 from Chelmsford (Widford). A brief report of the sortie is also included in the book.  

Are there any suggestions for this apparent anomaly?  
 

 

[horatio2]

Sturtivant and Page in "RN Aircraft Seerials and Units" also name EV REID as the Flight Sub Lieutenant pilot of 1594 on 3 and 4 July 1915. The July 1916 Navy List confirms Probationary Flight Sub L:ieutenant with seniority 10 January 1916 and he was not confirmed in rtank (non-Proby) for another seven months. Looks like a pilot mis-ident by someone which error has then been picked up and repeated. Could his Canadian origin be behind this mistake? I have anote of his starting flying lesson in Canada very early in 1916, so not only was he not in the RNAS in July 1915 but he was living and working in Canada.

[topgun1918]

I suspect that this is a misreading of H V Reid, appointed a Probationary Temporary Flight Sub-Lieutenant on 24 June 1915.

Graeme

 

[horatio2]

Howard Vincent REID RNAS. Perhaps a bit unlikely that an officer who entered the RNAS on 24 June would be flying solo on a Hostile Sea Plane Patrol (HSPP - according to Sturtivant) nine days later.

[topgun1918]

Unlikely, but not impossible.  So far, I've not come across any other likely suspects in the Navy/Army Lists for the period.

Graeme

Having said that, just come across G H Reid, appointed Probationary Temporary Flight Sub-Lieutenant on 19 November 1914.

 

Edited 17 July , 2022 by topgun1918

[Red Gate]

Thanks to you both for your very helpful replies.  Yes it certainly does look as though an error has been replicated.

Looking at the service records for both of the other Reids, GH’s seems to have post war entries only but HV’s states that he was based at Chingford. I believe that the Widford base was an outpost of Chingford and so I imagine that there is a possibility that HV undertook the sortie albeit that he was a newbie.  Maybe a trip to Kew will be needed. 

[Red Gate]

Just done a little bit of Googling and I is said that Howard Vincent Reid was the first Newfoundlander to serve in an allied air service and was 21 years of age at the time

[horatio2]

It is entirely possible that EV REID has been confused with HV REID.

However, with regars to HV REID,I am still sceptical about a (presumably fully qualified) pilot being launched on an operational patrol only nine days after enlisting in the RNAS, even if he had previously qualified as a pilot during his service as a 2^nd Lt in the Newfoundland Regiment. This may be the case since he was commissioned as a Temporary Flight Sub Lieutenant but not ‘Probationary’

His early RNAS appointments appear to be: -

24 June 1915- on the books of HMS PRESIDENT (additional) – presumably for RNAS induction – but his AIR 76 record shows him as HMS VICTORY “for N[avigation] Course” on this date.

18 July 1915 on the books of HMS VICTORY for course at RNAS Chingford.

23 November 1915 RNAS DOVER.

However interpreted this pattern of appointments does not put him anywhere near an aeroplane until two weeks after the flying incidents on 3 and 4 July 1915.

[topgun1918]

In the Army List for August 1915, page 192, under the heading of Naval Wing (Royal Naval Air Service), Flight Sub-Lieutenants - cont'd, the entry is:

Reid, H.V. (prob.) (temp.) 

with the date 24 June 1915.

The fly in the ointment is that Howard Vincent Reid didn't receive his RAeC ticket, number 1708, until 8 September 1915, suggesting that he isn't 'our man'.

Graeme

 

[horatio2]

The Navy List confirms HV's 'probationary' status so thecorrect  name of the pilot remains a mystery.

[horatio2]

On 17/07/2022 at 22:37, Red Gate said:

Looking at the service records for both of the other Reids, GH’s seems to have post war entries only but HV’s states that he was based at Chingford. I believe that the Widford base was an outpost of Chingford and so I imagine that there is a possibility that HV undertook the sortie albeit that he was a newbie.  Maybe a trip to Kew will be needed. 

Perhaps George Hancock REID could be our man after all.  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9748246

His ADM 273 RNAS record shows that he had been confirmed as a Flight Sub Lieutenant on 23 June 1915 and was serving at RNAS CHINGFORD until 14 July 1915. Thereafter, via RNAS YARMOUTH and RNAS CALSHOT (both seaplane bases) he served in HMS VINDEX (seaplane carrier) as senior seaplane pilot. Flying Short Type 184 Ser.8040 from VINDEX on a raid against the HOYER Zeppelin base on 25 March 1916 he was forced down and became a POW.

On 3 and 4 July 1915 GH REID was a fully qualified Chingford pilot (in the RNAS since 19 November 1914. Aviator's Cert 1113, 15 March 1915) with the 'correct' surname . A much more likely candidate than HV REID to be flying an operational sortie.

https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Flt-Lt_George_Hancock_Reid

Edited 19 July , 2022 by horatio2

[Red Gate]

Thanks for sticking with this query Horatio.  GH certainly looks a very good candidate if the Reid surname is correct. 
 

I see that you mentioned activity on both 3 and 4 July.  Cole and Cheesman only mention the sortie on 3 July.  Do you have any information on the work done on 4 July please?  

 

 

 

[horatio2]

Myerror. Disregard 4th.

[Red Gate]

Thanks for the clarification