Capt Albert Ball, VC, DSO & MC - Lithograph Print

[GMB]

Hi All,

I have toyed with the idea of posting this in another section, but can't make my mind up which area to post.

I am curious as to if members have come across another lithograph print (attached) of Capt Albert Ball, and if so, if they have any additional information regarding it.

The print is a copy of the original painting by Denholm Davis, and on the border is states 'Copyright George Jellicoe, 34 Henrietta street, Covent Garden, London'.

Try as I may, I cannot see any other examples of this print (specifically by George Jellicoe) on the internet - I am curious as to how many were produced (were they limited runs or mass produced), and to pin point the date it was created (I am led to believe it was during WW1, but would be post 1917 from the original painting).

Cheers

Gavin

 

Edited 8 July , 2022 by GMB

[travers61]

In 1910 the publishers Lawrence & Jellicoe Ltd had their offices at 34 Henrietta Street.  As well as prints they published postcards, illustrated books & hand painted calendars.

I believe the Jellicoe part of the partnership was George Edward Jellicoe (1872 - 1953), who is shown on the 1901 Census as a director of a publishing company. George's father was the illustrator John Timothy Jellicoe (1842 - 1914) & his son was the landscape architect Sir Geoffrey Alan Jellicoe (1900-1996).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jellicoe_(illustrator)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Jellicoe

 

Managed to find another aviation print by Lawrence & Jellicoe Ltd from 1912.

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/the-london-to-manchester-flight-delaspre-h-artist/ZQF0X7qTJA9D9g

[rolt968]

Do you know where the original painting is? I have certainly seen the picture before but it may have been the original.

RM

[aconnolly]

@GMBGavin - are you sure it's by Noel Denholm Davis?

This is apparently the Davis painting of Ball:

 

@rolt968  RM - This is the painting by Edward Newling and is apparently in the Nottingham Museum and Gallery: 

Note: Newling's painting has Ball holding his flying jacket across his right arm and there are a couple of other differences so is the print in the Thread a type of reproduction as opposed to a copy??

Andrew

Edited 9 July , 2022 by aconnolly

[rolt968]

The Newling portrait is in the IWM Collection.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/20311

The Noel Denholm Davis portrait is in the collection of the Worcester and Sherwood Foresters Museum ( at Nottingham Castle).

https://www.nottinghamcastle.org.uk/celebrating-captain-albert-ball-vc-on-the-date-of-his-final-flight/

Interesting. I must have seen both portraits. The one at Nottingham Castle many times, but the other sticks in my memory.

RM

Edited 9 July , 2022 by rolt968

[GMB]

Thanks, that is really interesting and if anything, throws up some more questions.

Thanks for clarifying that the original was a Newling portrait (that is more laziness on my part). I had noticed the imagine was flipped, and wondered if that was part of the Lithograph process (first I have come across lithographs). I hadn't noticed the medal ribbons were different.

I attach 3 images which now confuse me - the first is from the bottom left which has 'Denholm Davis 1917' - hence why I thought the original was a Denholm painting.

Secondly is a very faint signature on the border. Do I dare ask if it is Denholm's?

And finally is the copyright of Jellicoe on the top of the border.

I purchased this on a bit of a wim (as it caught from eye) from someone who was getting rid of an RFC collection. I have been told of some provenance, however, this I cannot confirm or deny this.

Edited 9 July , 2022 by GMB

[rolt968]

If I remember rightly early lithographs were flipped. I wonder if in this case the basic part of the lithograph is indeed a fipped image of the Denholm Davis portrait. Then the details  were added the right way round.

RM

[GMB]

11 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

If I remember rightly early lithographs were flipped. I wonder if in this case the basic part of the lithograph is indeed a fipped image of the Denholm Davis portrait. Then the details  were added the right way round.

RM

What's confusing me, is if this is based on the Newling portrait (although it has some differences), why would it have Denholm on the corner.......unless he also did a version which is practically a copy?

[pierssc]

The thing that strikes me about all three pictures is that Ball is shown with the ribbon of the VC.... which he was awarded posthumously.

[aconnolly]

 

44 minutes ago, pierssc said:

The thing that strikes me about all three pictures is that Ball is shown with the ribbon of the VC.... which he was awarded posthumously.

All the portraits were posthumous based presumably on photographs.  In fact to add to my confusion the Imperial War Museum painting is not the same as the one in Nottingham - pocket is different etc. so I'm utterly confused!  I don't know if either artist made painted than one version!

[Andrew Upton]

10 hours ago, pierssc said:

The thing that strikes me about all three pictures is that Ball is shown with the ribbon of the VC.... which he was awarded posthumously.

He's also variously depicted wearing the medal ribbon of the 1914/15 Star which he was never entitled to. Although he signed up in mid/late 1914 he never saw overseas service until early 1916. For some reason his father decided a VC, DSO with two bars, MC, Legion d'honneur, Order of St George and MID was insufficient (!) and felt the need to add a renamed 1914/15 Star to the medal group:

 

Edited 10 July , 2022 by Andrew Upton

[rolt968]

7 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

He's also variously depicted wearing the medal ribbon of the 1914/15 Star which he was never entitled to. Although he signed up in mid/late 1914 he never saw overseas service until early 1916. For some reason his father decided a VC, DSO with two bars, MC, Legion d'honneur, Order of St George and MID was insufficient (!) and felt the need to add a renamed 1914/15 Star to the medal group:

 

Dear me! It's a very long time since I saw the medal display. I should have noticed that!

RM

[GMB]

I have to be honest, I am now completely stumped 

I don't think for one moment I am sat on a complete rarity - however, the fact we are all a bit confused does make me wonder if this was a set of very limited prints at the time. 

I wish it was in a modern frame so I could take it out for a closer look - I don't want to disturb the original frame, as knowing my like it will fall apart.