A/Sgt Hubert Edward Mills - P/633 MMP

[RussT]

I would welcome the views/advice of others on whether this man might be a possible candidate for commemoration.

Hubert Edward Mills joined the Military Mounted Police on 02/12/1914 and served in France between 18/01/1915 and 19/05/1915.

He was discharged medically unfit on 25/05/1917 and shortly afterwards he died on 31/08/1917.

His Pension Index Card indicates that the conditions from which he died commenced on active service.

The pension related notes in his service file states that his condition may be regarded for pension purposes as being aggravated by service - although it also states that this is an extremely doubtful case but given a lack of evidence to the contrary then the benefit of the doubt is given.

I've no idea if this helps or hinders a claim for commemoration - hence this post seeking the views of others.

Regards

Russ

 

 

 

 

[PaulC78]

I'm afraid I don't know the answer to your question, your best bet may be to contact IFCP directly and see what Terry Denham makes of it. May be a case of submitting the case anyway and seeing what happens.

I think the name is Hubert rather than Herbert.

[RussT]

6 hours ago, PaulC78 said:

best bet may be to contact IFCP directly

Yes, that seems the best thing to do, thanks.

7 hours ago, PaulC78 said:

I think the name is Hubert rather than Herbert

I looks like you are correct even though some documents have him as Herbert - I'll change the title/thread just in case of future searches.

Regards

Russ

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

Likely won’t help with your IFCP challenge but forum member @Toontraveller may be able to assist on his pre military service background as a Police Constable. Based on his Battersea address I’m assuming he likely served in Met Police.  
 

Steve

[RussT]

 

6 hours ago, tullybrone said:

his pre military service background as a Police Constable.

Thanks for the comments - yes there will no doubt be a wealth of background information for him to be discovered including his previous career in the Police Force - and also his previous military service in the Wilts and Dorset Yeomanry. It's not surprising that men accepted for service the the MMP commonly had some previous experience in both the Police and the Cavalry.

6 hours ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

much may depend on what his Death Certificate says

If he were to have a chance of being accepted for commemoration, I'm sure a death certificate would be a mandatory part of the submission - but at this initial stage I think there is very little controversy about the medical cause of death - rather I think it hinges on whether his death was a result of, or aggravated by, his military service - and I don't believe a death certificate would be of any help in the determination or judgement of that.

Helpfully, his Statement of Services has an annotation stating that his cause of death is verified from the death certificate.

Regards

Russ

 

 

[Toontraveller]

Steve thank you for including me in this post.

Yes he was a Metropolitan Police Officer.

Hubert Edward Mills born 31 May 1885/6? in Mere, Wiltshire.

He joined the Metropolitan Police (MP) on the  6th August 1906 and allocated warrant number 93581.

He is recorded as PC 415 V Division Mills W/N 93591.

In Metropolitan Police Orders  dated 5th December 1914 he is recorded as going off pay on the 1st December 1914 when he joins the Army. He has previously declared prior to joining the MP he was a Volunteer  for 3 years in the 1st Wilts. He would have remained on the MP "Books" as a Constable  and at the end of the War he had survived he would have been entitled to re-join the MP . His service in the Army during WW1 would have contributed to his Police Pension. 

He is included in the MP Roll of Honour and recorded on the MP War Memorial Board located at the Metropolitan Police Training Centre,  Peel Centre, Colindale. NW London. His death therefore recognised as attributable to service in World War 1.

I will do a little bit more digging but appears to have been shown as resigned from the Metropolitan Police and noted in MP Police orders dated 2nd June 1917 which I find very odd and this may have been a bureaucratic error at that time which was subsequently amended at a later date.  In my opinion its a grave mistake if he resigned just prior to death as this would have a huge impact on his benefits available to his family.

I will speak with Provost regarding the MMP service aspect as he may have more. We are working on a project to identify all Metropolitan Police Officers who served in the Military Police during WW1.

The Metropolitan Police Heritage Centre is in the process of moving at the moment and we can not access records but I will call them on Monday.

 

[Provost]

I've checked our records, but he only appears in the Corps Order Books stating he was discharged on 25.5.1917 (KR para 392 (xvi) and that he was awarded a pension of 32/6 per week for 26 weeks.

Cheers,

Richard

[tullybrone]

On 02/07/2022 at 17:55, Toontraveller said:

Steve thank you for including me in this post.

Yes he was a Metropolitan Police Officer.

Hubert Edward Mills born 31 May 1885/6? in Mere, Wiltshire.

He joined the Metropolitan Police (MP) on the  6th August 1906 and allocated warrant number 93581.

He is recorded as PC 415 V Division Mills W/N 93591.

In Metropolitan Police Orders  dated 5th December 1914 he is recorded as going off pay on the 1st December 1914 when he joins the Army. He has previously declared prior to joining the MP he was a Volunteer  for 3 years in the 1st Wilts. He would have remained on the MP "Books" as a Constable  and at the end of the War he had survived he would have been entitled to re-join the MP . His service in the Army during WW1 would have contributed to his Police Pension. 

He is included in the MP Roll of Honour and recorded on the MP War Memorial Board located at the Metropolitan Police Training Centre,  Peel Centre, Colindale. NW London. His death therefore recognised as attributable to service in World War 1.

I will do a little bit more digging but appears to have been shown as resigned from the Metropolitan Police and noted in MP Police orders dated 2nd June 1917 which I find very odd and this may have been a bureaucratic error at that time which was subsequently amended at a later date.  In my opinion its a grave mistake if he resigned just prior to death as this would have a huge impact on his benefits available to his family.

I will speak with Provost regarding the MMP service aspect as he may have more. We are working on a project to identify all Metropolitan Police Officers who served in the Military Police during WW1.

The Metropolitan Police Heritage Centre is in the process of moving at the moment and we can not access records but I will call them on Monday.

 

Hi Barry,

 

Thanks for such an informative response. I’m sure it will be much appreciated by the OP @RussT

Regards

Steve

Edited 6 July , 2022 by tullybrone

[RussT]

On 02/07/2022 at 17:55, Toontraveller said:

He is included in the MP Roll of Honour and recorded on the MP War Memorial Board located at the Metropolitan Police Training Centre,  Peel Centre, Colindale. NW London. His death therefore recognised as attributable to service in World War 1.

Many thanks for the general background information on this man - and Richard too for checking the Corps Order Books.

Just so I am clear, is your statement above that "His death therefore recognised as attributable to service in World War 1" come from those responsible for compiling the Metropolitan Police War Memorial and/or because of some other criterion?

Regards

Russ

[Toontraveller]

Russ, at the time of the collation of the Metropolitan Police Roll of Honour compiled just after the War they included all Metropolitan Police Officers who died during the War period. There are no records available that I am aware of concerning the criteria for inclusion .

There are no records available for individual personnel records that far back.

I am not an expert on what is required to change a soldier who is currently uncommerated or the evidence you need to  persuade the CWGC otherwise. It is likely the only documentation or evidence to support the claim you have already from the pension record or service record. 
The staff at the Metropolitan Police Heritage Centre are currently in the process of physically moving records and artefacts and not yet responding to emails or telephone enqs. I last communicated with them on Monday for the latest update. 

If you want to be doubly sure you can contact the Metropolitan  Police Heritage Centre but you may have to wait a while for a response. Hope that helps .

Edited 8 July , 2022 by Toontraveller
Typo

[RussT]

Thanks for the clarification.

Regards

Russ