Lieut David Gordon Armstrong RN 002041

[ewanarm68]

Hi All,

I am currently researching the service record of my 1st cousin 3 x removed, David Gordon Armstrong, born 24/05/1885 in Bishop Auckland. I have downloaded his service record from TNA but am struggling with some of the handwriting and comments.

It would appear that he had a poor disciplianry record and was court martialled  at least twice and was eventually discharged on 20/02/1918 - the charges being that he had committed "acts to prejudice of good order of Naval Discipline in 1) being in his cabin alone with an Ordinary Signalman the curtains being drawn at the time and 2) giving away whisky in his cabin to the same Ordinary Signalman."

There is also comment of a further incident in July 1918 when he refused to sail on a ship unless the Master allowed him to be in possession of a revolver for which he received a sentence of 40 days hard labour.

I was hoping that someone could assist in interpreting some of the comments on the service record.

ADM-340-3-37.pdf

[horatio2]

36 minutes ago, ewanarm68 said:

I was hoping that someone could assist in interpreting some of the comments on the service record

This is rather a vague and sweeping request. May I suggest that you make the most of what you have and then approach to Forum with specific questions about your transcription.

There are also records for him in ADM 240 which you need to download for completeness  -   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14636469     and     https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14619925

N.B. Naval officers (including RNR and RNVR) do not have service or official numbers. The number you have quoted in the topic title is but one of the index numbers of his ADM 340 record cards. They identify the cards, not the officer.

Although this officer qualified for the 1914-15 Star, Victory Medal and British War Medal, the RNR medal Roll shows that he never claimed them. Maybe his friendship with the signalman lay behind this but, despite his conviction and discharge, his medals were not forfeited.

[ewanarm68]

Apologies for being a bit vague. I will continue to try and interpret what I can and then try to be a bit more specific when I get stuck.

Thank you for the links and thank you for the answer to my next question which was going to be if he forfeited his medals?

[horatio2]

Some additional info from the ship's log of the cruiser HMS KING ALFRED  -  http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_King_Alfred.htm

At Stokes Bay (Solent):-

16 Sep 1915 - pm: Lieutenant David G. Armstrong, R.N.R., joined ship.

At the island of São Vicente, Cape Verde:-

8 Apr 1916 - am: Reprimanded Acting Lieutenant David Gordon Armstrong, R.N.R., for behaving with disrespect towards Fleet Surgeon Michael Joseph Smith, R.N. (Acknowledged by D.G. Armstrong)

27 Apr 1916 - am: CARMANIA hoisted Court Martial Jack ... 4.45 pm: CARMANIA hauled down Court Martial Jack.

30 Apr 1918 - 8.00 am: Lieutenant David G. Armstrong, R.N.R., Discharged to S.S. ORITA for passage home.

RNR Regulations state "Officers will render themselves liable to retirement, removal from the List or forfeiture of Commission, as the case may be, on account of ... offfences against the rules, discipline or character of His Majesty's Service." Their Lordships so decided.

Edited 22 June , 2022 by horatio2

[seaJane]

4 hours ago, horatio2 said:

At Stokes Bay (Solent):-

About five minutes' drive from where I'm sitting now - used to be on my commute to work.

4 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Fleet Surgeon Michael Joseph Smith, R.N.

I must see if I have a picture of him. Not that that's of any assistance re: Lt Armstrong.

[ewanarm68]

10 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Some additional info from the ship's log of the cruiser HMS KING ALFRED  -  http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_King_Alfred.htm

At Stokes Bay (Solent):-

16 Sep 1915 - pm: Lieutenant David G. Armstrong, R.N.R., joined ship.

At the island of São Vicente, Cape Verde:-

8 Apr 1916 - am: Reprimanded Acting Lieutenant David Gordon Armstrong, R.N.R., for behaving with disrespect towards Fleet Surgeon Michael Joseph Smith, R.N. (Acknowledged by D.G. Armstrong)

27 Apr 1916 - am: CARMANIA hoisted Court Martial Jack ... 4.45 pm: CARMANIA hauled down Court Martial Jack.

30 Apr 1918 - 8.00 am: Lieutenant David G. Armstrong, R.N.R., Discharged to S.S. ORITA for passage home.

RNR Regulations state "Officers will render themselves liable to retirement, removal from the List or forfeiture of Commission, as the case may be, on account of ... offfences against the rules, discipline or character of His Majesty's Service." Their Lordships so decided.

Thanks again for this. Helps me understand more about his disciplinary record

[wallace2]

His record shows that on re-joining RNR/mobilisation in 1914 he was appointed to HMS Sub C1.  Seems very early in war for non RN being appointed to submarines?

[horatio2]

15 minutes ago, wallace2 said:

Seems very early in war for non RN being appointed to submarines?

In late September 1914 S/Lt ARMSTRONG was by no means the first RNR junior officer appointed to submarines. Just to take one example, the depot ship HMS MAIDSTONE: on 16 August 1914 8 x S/Lts RNR were appointed "for submarines". In the October1914 Navy List (effective date 18 September 1914) she bore 8 x S/Lts and 1 x Lt RNR"for submarines" and one month later the RNR total was 11. In mid-November 1914 the total had risen to 19.

[wallace2]

Thank you again H2!

Your amazing ability to produce concise and accurate information so quickly is what makes this forum so worthwhile.

It was purely a speculative comment from me. 

Thanks again for your time.

[The Treasurer]

Worth adding that as the third hand on his submarines, principal duties were around navigation and keeping watch. These duties did not require specialised submarine knowledge and could leverage the skills of RNR officers. The third officer was added to subs on outbreak of war to ensure that there were three watch keepers available on patrol. While assigned to Maidstone he was third hand on E.13 and left her immediately before her attempted breakthrough into the Baltic, which ended in the loss of the vessel and internment for the survivors in Denmark.

[ewanarm68]

Fascinating stuff, thank you. I am still trying to decipher some of the comments on the service record but it would appear he disciplined at least 3 times.

[The Treasurer]

The name was familiar from my research, so I checked my copy of the Maidstone Magazine - the monthly flotilla rag. Sure enough your forebear has a 'celebrity profile' in the May 1915 edition. He was clearly a key character in the wardroom to get a write up in the magazine. However, he certainly left E.13 before her foray into the Baltic, leaving Harwich on 15 August 1915, being replaced by William Garriock, Acting Lieutenant RNR. Here is the write up:

 

[ewanarm68]

Wow that's fantastic. Have just finished transcribing his midshipman service record

[ewanarm68]

I have finally worked my way through the service records and other documents so kindly supplied and have now got more a complete record of D G Armstrong's mercantile and RNR service. It would appear that he was not a model sailor with a number of disciplianary matters including asleep on duty, assaulting an apprentice, theft of lengths of rope, behaving with disrespect to a fellow officer, his court marital and discharge from the service after being found in his cabin with an Ordinary Seaman and consuming whisky. Finally he was sentenced to 40 days hard labour in Australia for failing to board his ship as he refused to sail without being in possession of a revolver. This was in July 1918 and it is after this that the trail goes cold and I am struggling to find any futher records of him either in Australia or the UK. I will have to keep digging!

Thank you once again for all the help and interesting information that you have found out for me.