Interpreting ASC casualty record

[rossf9]

Hi - I'm researching my g-grandfather's WW1 record. I'm quite new to this and the combination of acronyms and handwriting are making some of the documents challenging to read!

Can anyone help with the below? Many thanks!

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum 
 

26/11/16 ASC Base Depot  To No 2 Divl (Divisional) Train ) 103 Company.

27/2/17 89 F(ield) Amb(ulance)) Appointed A(cting) L(ance) Cpl (Corporal) without Pay 

22/3/17 103 Coy (company) 2 Div(isional)  Tr (train) I can’t quite make out the rest of that line 

24/4/17 do (ditto) a(acting) L(lance) Cpl(corporal) Appointed A(acting) Cpl(corporal)

Thats for starters 

[rossf9]

1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

Welcome to the forum 
 

26/11/16 ASC Base Depot  To No 2 Divl (Divisional) Train ) 103 Company.

27/2/17 89 F(ield) Amb(ulance)) Appointed A(cting) L(ance) Cpl (Corporal) without Pay 

22/3/17 103 Coy (company) 2 Div(isional)  Tr (train) I can’t quite make out the rest of that line 

24/4/17 do (ditto) a(acting) L(lance) Cpl(corporal) Appointed A(acting) Cpl(corporal)

Thats for starters 

Amazing, thank you.

What does the date in 'Date of Casualty' mean? Eg one of the lines has a 'report date' of 27/2/17 but a casualty date of 10/4/15 - why would there be such a long time between the dates?

Are the remarks in the final column relevant/useful?

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Date of casualty is actually the date when the event occurred, whereas 'Date' (in the left hand column) is the date the entry was made. It looks strange to our eyes but that's the way they did it.

Which means that the entries that Michelle has transcribed for you should have different dates thus:

ASC Base Depot  To No 2 Divl (Divisional) Train ) No. 3 Company  -16/11/16 [ entry written 26/11/16]

89 F(ield) Amb(ulance)) Appointed A(cting) L(ance) Cpl (Corporal) without Pay  -10/4/15 [entry written 27/2/17]

No. 3 Coy (company) 2 Div(isional)  Tr (train) "to 6th rate of Corps pay" - 8/3/17

 do.  (ditto) a(acting) L(lance) Cpl(corporal) - 15/2/17

do. Appointed A(acting) Cpl(corporal)
awarded? duty with pay
vice [in place of] T/32280 Cpl. Harrington, T.
[who himself was] appted. A/Sgt 15/2/17   -  8/3/17

Promoted Cpl  . ... . ... .... .     - 16/4/18

 

You'll see that the entries were not made at the time of appointments or promotions, sometimes they were many weeks behind, thus seemingly making the entries mixed up.

(They are anyway and yes, the handwriting is poor).

 

 

Edited 7 June , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2nd Divisional Train, No.3 Company was  28 Company ASC, for which a war diary exists at the NA under the reference number WO95/1340

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351960

Edited 6 June , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

I see he was No. 1770 in the RAMC initially, going abroad first on 16/3/15 (Egypt), invalided home from Mudros (Lemnos near Gallipoli)  then transferred to ASC in 1916 and renumbered T4/210331.

His MIC : https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/5291557:1262?_phsrc=DLP642&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=2&queryId=a8ef72a28a680ed6f99d2a720bff29fb

Edited 6 June , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Michelle Young]

Thanks Dai, I wasn’t sure whether it was 103 or No3! 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

Thanks Dai, I wasn’t sure whether it was 103 or No3! 

Thanks Michelle. Yes it is quite a subtle stroke of the pen, but in this context, No. 3 fits the bill nicely.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The business about the record being written after the event is nicely highlighted in this man's record.
Usually, movements, promotions, transfers etc. are understandably written up after the event.
Usually it's a few days, or a few weeks. The longer the gap, the more chance there is of errors creeping in.

In this man's case, his allocation to 89 Field Ambulance was on 10/4/15 but wasn't recorded in his record until almost 2 years later, on 27/2/17. This of course appears out of sequence, and raises the question of why an ASC driver (HT) was in a Field Ambulance of the RAMC?

Browsing his record, you come later to another page which shows his earlier service in the RAMC in Egypt, then Mudros.

Invalided home in 1915, he later joined/was caller up to the ASC.

Edited 7 June , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

In this man's case, his allocation to 89 Field Ambulance was on 10/4/15 but wasn't recorded in his record until almost 2 years later, on 27/2/17. This of course appears out of sequence, and raises the question of why an ASC driver (HT) was in a Field Ambulance of the RAMC?

He was not serving with the FA whilst he was with the RASC (although ASC drivers were sometimes attached to the FA).

Apologies for any duplication but he enlisted in the 1st Highland Field Ambulance (Transport Section) on the 1st October 1914 at Fonthill and was numbered 1770.
He enlisted under Territorial Force terms and signed the Imperial Obligation to serve overseas on enlistment.

See LLT for composition of a Field Ambulance http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/the-evacuation-chain-for-wounded-and-sick-soldiers/field-ambulances-in-the-first-world-war/

His original enlistment was in the 1st Reserve HFA and was he was posted with the 1/1st  Highland Field Ambulance (designated 89th FA) 29th Division to the Dardanelles Campaign in 1915.

The 14-15 Star Roll shows him landing in a theatre of war (Egypt) on the 16th March 1915. In all probability this was the embarkation date but that is not unusual it was what was recorded on his record. See:- http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/29th-division/

As noted above he was admitted to a medical facility in Mudros suffering from jaundice on the 9th November 1915 and evacuated to the UK on the 24th December 1915 on the Aquitaine.

He would then have received treatment in the UK and on recovery was posted to the 4/1st Highland Field Ambulance.  This was a Reserve Unit based in the UK.

On the 4th August 1916 he was transferred from 4/1st HFA RAMC to 3/1st HDT (Highland Divisional Transport) ASC WO letter dated 30..10. 1915  as a TF soldier I suspect this is when he was allocated the 9907 number that appears in his record.

As Dai has noted he was transferred and renumbered to the Regular ASC on the same date and allocated the number T4/210331

He then went to France as shown above.

He was serving with 3 Coy 2nd Division Transport RASC when medically examined in March 1919 prior to discharge in Straberg (Strasburg?).  2nd Division was part of the Army of Occupation.

He was 'disembodied' on discharge on 27th April 1919.

I suspect the reason for the unusually late entry concerning his appointment as Lance Corporal without pay whilst serving with the Field Ambulance was to denote the fact he was appointed Acting Corporal without pay whilst serving with 3 Coy 2nd Divisional Transport on the 15th February 1917.  He was then appointed  with pay on 8th March 1917 before finally being promoted to Corporal in 1918. It was probably due to some arcane pay regulation regarding the appointment to Lance Corporal/Corporal without pay.  Perhaps he even complained!

From his Statement of Service there is an asterisk linking the three events and they each appear to have been written in the same hand.

Image from FMP

[rossf9]

Amazing - thanks so much everyone. That's all super helpful.

Is there a reliable source for acronyms as that's where I'm mostly struggling in deciphering other documents? Eg. I couldn't find HDT (Highland Divisional Transport) on the Long Long Trail or National Archives acronym list.

[kenf48]

31 minutes ago, rossf9 said:

Amazing - thanks so much everyone. That's all super helpful.

Is there a reliable source for acronyms as that's where I'm mostly struggling in deciphering other documents? Eg. I couldn't find HDT (Highland Divisional Transport) on the Long Long Trail or National Archives acronym list.

I don't think any list is complete. The LLT is as good as any.

I have an interest in the TF and assumed 3/1 HDT was the reserve Highland Division Transport and Supply Column (TF ASC).   The 1st Company was based at Perth pre-war whereas the 3rd (Gordon Brigade)was at Fonthill, Aberdeen which is where he originally enlisted with the Field Ambulance.  

Speculatively I guess when he recovered from his illness the Transport Section of the FA was up to strength with "drivers" so he was posted to another element of the Division at home but when he arrived in France at the Base depot he was posted to the 2nd Division where he remained for the duration. The Base Depots were a 'melting pot' for postings and men were sent where most needed.

I assume you have seen he's on the Aberdeen University Roll of Service (Scholar 1911-1914).  Interesting he was happy in the ranks and probably enjoyed working with horses.

[rossf9]

54 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

I don't think any list is complete. The LLT is as good as any.

I have an interest in the TF and assumed 3/1 HDT was the reserve Highland Division Transport and Supply Column (TF ASC).   The 1st Company was based at Perth pre-war whereas the 3rd (Gordon Brigade)was at Fonthill, Aberdeen which is where he originally enlisted with the Field Ambulance.  

Speculatively I guess when he recovered from his illness the Transport Section of the FA was up to strength with "drivers" so he was posted to another element of the Division at home but when he arrived in France at the Base depot he was posted to the 2nd Division where he remained for the duration. The Base Depots were a 'melting pot' for postings and men were sent where most needed.

I assume you have seen he's on the Aberdeen University Roll of Service (Scholar 1911-1914).  Interesting he was happy in the ranks and probably enjoyed working with horses.

Thanks - yes he grew up on a dairy farm near Stonehaven (South of Aberdeen) which probably explains the horse link.