Who made it the furthest at ANZAC?

[tankengine888]

Hello!
Disclaimer: I know this is a common question and probably already has a thread on it, but I have failed to find any.
I hear stuff like '10th Battalion [A Coy] Scouts Blackburn* and Robin made it furthest than anyone else [Past the Scrubby Knoll]', but then I hear a Company of the 12th Battalion made it just past Chunuk Bair, a feat only later achieved by Malone's Wellingtons on the 8th August 1915, yet the position was lost on the 10th.
*Blackburn is Arthur Blackburn, later got commissioned and Victoria Cross Recipient.

Now, I want to know and find out if these was the only people to make it the furthest on the Peninsula [via ANZAC area] or were there people who made it further??
I await responses!

[aconnolly]

Charles Bean refers to skeletal remains of a New Zealander being found on the 3rd ridge at Anzac.

[tankengine888]

52 minutes ago, aconnolly said:

Charles Bean refers to skeletal remains of a New Zealander being found on the 3rd ridge at Anzac.

IF I am correct, that is Gun Ridge? That would mean that Kiwi made it to [essentially] the Scrubby Knoll or if you know your area, Hobb's Hill. I'll look into it.

[WhiteStarLine]

Loutit had a good map of the area and followed this and took his platoon onto Gun Ridge (Third Ridge) and held it until early afternoon when he realised he was alone and under pressure.  He left behind a wounded man and re-joined the 10th Battalion.  A year or two before he died he visited the 10th Battalion officers' mess and took me through the Landing over a beer (only because I was the only second lieutenant in the unit).

Bean originally thought he was the furthest inland and followed Loutit's platoon's cartridge cases and even wrote to Loutit to ask how he was able to see the Dardanelles from the Third Ridge (answer was from a quick reconnaissance to a high point).  Later, it emerged that the two scouts you cite had gone even further and turned back when they saw the swarm of Turkish troops approaching Third Ridge from the Dardanelles side.  Bean's notebooks are a free download from the AWM and very comprehensive.  Here is a very short summary of the Third Ridge. 

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/anzac-centenary/wwi-historian-charles-bean-uncovers-story-of-third-ridge-push-and-noel-loutits-role-at-gallipoli/news-story/507c33cbabc4289ced87d0811e5d0d28

[WhiteStarLine]

The Gallipoli Gazetteer shows Scrubby Knoll, Hobb's Hill and Gun Ridge (yellow circle).  Vicinity of Anderson's Knoll (green circle near Gun Ridge) on Street View shows glimpses of the Dardanelles from the standing position, remembering that in 1915 vegetation was very sparse due to goats.

 

 

[tankengine888]

Loutit... Colonel Loutit? Kid Colonel?
Interesting stuff by the way. I do take it that Arthur Blackburn [Along with Robin] were the only people to make it far enough, and maybe Loutit aswell?
TTFN
 

[tankengine888]

Hello!
I'd just like to know, I found a book awhile back saying 'Colonel Braund [Shot by Sentry May 1915] liked to take short cuts' and it later mentions he was shot [or took a shortcut via] the Scrubby Knoll... 
ALSO! I recall Captain Lalor [12th Battalion, grandson of the Eureka Rebellion leader] made it up a fair way [Baby 700], linked up with Captain Morshead [Ltr. WW2 Lieut. General]. Lalor was shot mid sentence unfortunately, supposedly [doubted to be] carrying his grandfathers sword that he wielded at the Rebellion in 1854. 
I was also wondering, isn't there a cliff here at the northern side of Baby 700? not 'defined' as much on the photo below and pointed with my shaky arrow

But Baby 700 isn't that far in as Scrubby Knoll or Third [Gun] Ridge, so I'd be guessing [safely] that this was one of the largest forces to breach inland a fair distance.. the total that I make out is around
Half of a Company
[Probably] Around a platoon or two under Morshead
That would mean around 4 Platoons give or take?
Also found this on a map
Probably Lalor and Morshead?
Information below is from this website http://indicatorloops.com/manly/robin.html
[Robin's Diary]

Lieutenant Loutit distinguished himself later in the day by penetrating inland a great distance-for many years it was believed that he and his men had penetrated deeper than any other troops. Loutit had gallantly lead his party of 32 men to a point close to Gun Ridge and then, after leaving the main body in a tight defensive position on a knoll, he, Private Roy Ogilvie Fordham and an unidentified man went forward to another knoll. At the time Loutit thought this was Scrubby Knoll-they'd actually crossed from the 400 Plateau and arrived on a spur leading up to Third Ridge to the south of Blackburn and Robin's Position. Lieutenant Loutit, after coming under heavy fire returned to where he'd left Lieutenant JL Haig and his party of men.

It was approximately 9.30 am and the Turks were beginning to cross Third Ridge in great numbers. Loutit's group withdrew in an orderly fashion and without panic; however, during the last leg they had to outrun the Turks and both sides raced each other to the last foothill before crossing the Legge Valley. By around 10 am the Turks were swarming over Third Ridge like angry bull ants while Loutit and his party raced up Wire Gully under a hail of bullets and finally reached the main line on the 400 Plateau at around 11 am. By this time there were estimated to be around 2500-3000 Turks on Third Ridge.

Brigadier Loutit described the landing and the actions of the first day as a 'guerrilla affair'. He was probably referring to the fact that during this disorganisation men simply banded together in small groups with men of other units and fought like crazy to stay alive. After telling David Wilson how he and his men captured four field guns at the top of Shrapnel Gully in a depression known as the Cup.
 

Lieutenant Loutit and his men, through sheer determination and courage had actually penetrated all the way to a spur running off Third Ridge, but from his position on the spur could not have sighted the Narrows. He and his party had actually climbed a spur line leading up to Scrubby Knoll where, unknown to him at the time, there were two false crests. Moving along this spur, he passed the first false crest and after climbing a further 275 metres (300 yards) and almost to the top of the second crest, he saw through a sharp dip in the ridgeline the shining waters of what appeared to him to be the Narrows. On such a prominent point it wasn't long before the Turks Spotted the Australians and opened fire. Thinking he'd sighted the water of the Narrows and still without support. Loutit wisely withdrew.

CEW Bean, during his visit after the war, walked over Loutit's route and also saw the shining waters, precisely as Loutit had described it. However, it was not the waters of the Narrows but a stunning 'view of the Straits about Kilia Liman'.


I need to sleep, so I'll leave it there.

TTFN!

 

[WhiteStarLine]

13 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

After telling David Wilson how he and his men captured four field guns

That's a good link you provided and I must chase down the book.  David is an authoritative source as he was the 10th Battalion adjutant in the last few years of Loutit's life and is now a League of Battlefield Guide and author of a great book on the 19th Battalion AIF.  David visited Noel at his Adelaide Hills home on several occasions, writing down recollections and helping the good Brigadier out by sharing the odd whiskey or two. 

Taking this thread totally off-topic, when Loutit died his granddaughter wanted his sidearm, which he had retained.  Due to a family misunderstanding, it was held for awhile then surrendered to the police and melted down.  She showed me his leather flying helmet and goggles, from when he was attached to the Australian Flying Corps.  Before she realised its significance, she had it autographed by Chuck Yeager, first to break the sound barrier in a level flight.

[tankengine888]

23 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

That's a good link you provided and I must chase down the book.  David is an authoritative source as he was the 10th Battalion adjutant in the last few years of Loutit's life and is now a League of Battlefield Guide and author of a great book on the 19th Battalion AIF.  David visited Noel at his Adelaide Hills home on several occasions, writing down recollections and helping the good Brigadier out by sharing the odd whiskey or two. 

Taking this thread totally off-topic, when Loutit died his granddaughter wanted his sidearm, which he had retained.  Due to a family misunderstanding, it was held for awhile then surrendered to the police and melted down.  She showed me his leather flying helmet and goggles, from when he was attached to the Australian Flying Corps.  Before she realised its significance, she had it autographed by Chuck Yeager, first to break the sound barrier in a level flight.

David Wilson eh? Interesting.
The totally off-topic bit is interesting.. If only his pistol was kept, it'd be brilliant. Signed by THE Chuck Yeager?? Hell, that would catch alot of money if she sold it but probably never would for obvious reasons.
Capturing 4 Field guns are no easy tasks.
TTFN.

Edited 4 June , 2022 by tankengine888

[aconnolly]

Correction:  My reference above to 3rd ridge was incorrect.  Bean reported finding remains of a serviceman with a piece of NZ kit on the inland aspect of Baby 700.  Bean is quoted by Pugsley in "Gallipoli the New Zealand Story" as follows:  

"One of the two who lay farthest appeared to be a New Zealander, for the cover of a New Zealand entrenching tool lay beside the little patch of torn cloths and human remains.  Pat of the Narrows was clearly visible from this summit".  Bean was referring to the inland slopes of Baby 700

Pugsley cites the reference as Bean, "Gallipoli Mission", pg 102

NZers mixed with Australian troops were definitely on Baby 700 on 25th April  

Seems Scrubby Knoll area is the likely furtherest incursion by the group under Loutit as described in early posts above.  

Andrew

[tankengine888]

32 minutes ago, aconnolly said:

Correction:  My reference above to 3rd ridge was incorrect.  Bean reported finding remains of a serviceman with a piece of NZ kit on the inland aspect of Baby 700.  Bean is quoted by Pugsley in "Gallipoli the New Zealand Story" as follows:  

"One of the two who lay farthest appeared to be a New Zealander, for the cover of a New Zealand entrenching tool lay beside the little patch of torn cloths and human remains.  Pat of the Narrows was clearly visible from this summit".  Bean was referring to the inland slopes of Baby 700

Pugsley cites the reference as Bean, "Gallipoli Mission", pg 102

NZers mixed with Australian troops were definitely on Baby 700 on 25th April  

Seems Scrubby Knoll area is the likely furtherest incursion by the group under Loutit as described in early posts above.  

Andrew

Even if incorrect on location, it is nice to know the New Zealanders are not forgotten in the landings.. I usually never hear about them. Baby 700 would mean they would've either

-arrived before Lalor

-arrived after Lalor

They also could've fought with Lalor but could've been with Morshead. Anyways, I have to go.

Ttfn

[aconnolly]

Adding further to the Scrubby Knoll:  Below is from the Australian War Memorial:

scrubby knoll cartridge cases.pdf

These Australian cartridge clips form part of a larger group of items collected at Scrubby Knoll in 1919. The clips were found near the summit of Scrubby Knoll and may indicate the furthest point reached by Australians on 25 April 1915. Turkish bullets were also found nearby. The Turkish commander, Essad Pasha, had his Headquarters there through the campaign.

The items were collected on 28 February 1919 by The Australian Historical Mission (AHM). The AHM, led by Official Historian C E W Bean, visited Gallipoli from February to March 1919 to collect items for the nation, to record the area through artworks and photographs, and to explore the battlefields to answer some of the 'riddles of Anzac' for the Australian official history of the war.

[tankengine888]

18 minutes ago, aconnolly said:

Adding further to the Scrubby Knoll:  Below is from the Australian War Memorial:

scrubby knoll cartridge cases.pdf 92.82 kB · 2 downloads

These Australian cartridge clips form part of a larger group of items collected at Scrubby Knoll in 1919. The clips were found near the summit of Scrubby Knoll and may indicate the furthest point reached by Australians on 25 April 1915. Turkish bullets were also found nearby. The Turkish commander, Essad Pasha, had his Headquarters there through the campaign.

The items were collected on 28 February 1919 by The Australian Historical Mission (AHM). The AHM, led by Official Historian C E W Bean, visited Gallipoli from February to March 1919 to collect items for the nation, to record the area through artworks and photographs, and to explore the battlefields to answer some of the 'riddles of Anzac' for the Australian official history of the war.

So this would mean Lieutenant Loutit’s group made it to the Scrubby Knoll OR Robin and Blackburn fired off a few whilst up on Gun Ridge..  but yes, I do feel it is Loutit’s clips and cartridges.

TTFN

[tankengine888]

45 minutes ago, Fromelles said:

Original 'G' Coy, 10th Bn, taken at 'The Lodge' Morphettville, South Australia with 2/Lieut NM Loutit, Lieut FG Giles & 2/Lieut WH Perry sitting left to right (with swords).

'G' Coy amalgamated with 'D' Coy, becoming 'D' Coy, under the new battalion structure of 4 companies (A - D) replaced the old 8 company (A - H) system took effect on the 1st January 1915.

These men were part of the covering force at the Landing.

Dan

By chance, can I use this photo for a little project? It's identifying men of the original 10th.. I do it for fun since I have nothing else to do.... Would you also have a photo of E Company or the 1st reinforcements of the 10th? Anyways, nice photo nonetheless!

[Fromelles]

14 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

By chance, can I use this photo for a little project? It's identifying men of the original 10th.. I do it for fun since I have nothing else to do.... Would you also have a photo of E Company or the 1st reinforcements of the 10th? Anyways, nice photo nonetheless!

Sure, as long as you pass on any info you may find

Sorry, I don't have 'E' Coy, however I believe I have a newspaper with their photo included (I'll have to check). The same newspaper also has the same photo of 'G' Coy, however it includes one extra soldier, who I suppose was a late comer so they took a second photograph.

I also have the 5th, 20th and 21st Reinforcements if they're of interest to you...

Dan

[tankengine888]

46 minutes ago, Fromelles said:

Sure, as long as you pass on any info you may find

Sorry, I don't have 'E' Coy, however I believe I have a newspaper with their photo included (I'll have to check). The same newspaper also has the same photo of 'G' Coy, however it includes one extra soldier, who I suppose was a late comer so they took a second photograph.

I also have the 5th, 20th and 21st Reinforcements if they're of interest to you...

Dan

I'll be sure to pass it on! I have a document with all the names (per embarkation) so it's an experience! Especially since I have to rewrite all the names and find photographs, entitlements or even finding what hair colour!

I'd appreciate the E Company photo, I can't find one anywhere!

Thanks for the reinforcements, but I'll be okay with what I got.. I wish i could find 1st reinforcements or F Company (for the 2nd Btn).. I had relatives in those reinforcements, aswell as another in the 50th battalion reinforcements.. but thanks! I'll be off dictating the names again, also access to view the document is here

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hwRioui6265xZHXHE-jDBKKBdvGO3KOLzgvEK1vLlV8/edit?usp=drivesdk

I also have a project naming people of my great great grandfathers unit, and making small biographies about them, mainly since it was only the 4th Light Horse Machine Gun Squadron which barely took any hits throughout 1917-18.. he is in my profile picture now that I mention it.

Anyways, enough typing on my half... I found a relative in the 32nd at Fromelles.. among those missing and found in 2008, Alexander McKenzie he is...

Anyways, thanks!

edit: I saw you sent reinforcements in the opinions thread, THANK YOU!

Edited 15 June , 2022 by tankengine888