St John Ambulance and Red Cross VAD uniforms

[monkstown]

Hopefully one of the forum members is following in the footsteps of the late Sue Light in regard to expertise on uniforms etc. and will be able to assist me here ...

I have access to a diary written by a VAD working in Linden Auxiliary Hospital, Blackrock, Co. Dublin during Easter Week, 1916 -  the Easter Rising in Dublin.

May 4th 1916: [I] saw many Red Cross nurses cycling across town in their white veils ...

May 15th 1916: I first burst upon the Institution in my new Red Cross uniform; the girls, of course, pretended to be 'struck of a heap', but the Rev. Mother approved, which was a comfort, as I much regretted leaving off the St John's cap, and {my sister's] most comfortable grey dresses which she left me on going off to an English hospital; however it seems wished by the aid corps that everyone should appear in her true colours.

 

Sue Light wrote on Scarletfinders: VADs who were part of the Order of St. John wore grey dresses rather than the BRCS mid-blue, but in black and white photos this distinction is very hard to make. The diary entry above  suggests to me that the writer was originally (June 1915) a St John Ambulance 'recruit' as a VAD but that by May 1916 she (and others, presumably) had been subsumed into the BRCS?  Am I correct in this? 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[alf mcm]

Perhaps your VAD is mentioned in this list from Findmypast;-  https://www.findmypast.co.uk/search/results?datasetname=british+army%2c+british+red+cross+society+volunteers+1914-1918&sid=103&keywords=linden+blackrock

It may be worthwhile checking this record set using her name.

  It sounds to me that she wanted to wear her sister's St. John uniform but was told she had to wear the St. John one, perhaps so that all VAD members looked the same.

  The British Red Cross Society and the Order of St. John of Jerusalem in England combined to form the Joint War Committee of The British Red Cross Society and the Order of St. John of Jerusalem in England. I m not sure of the situation with the Order of St. John in Ireland.

Regards,

Alf McM

[monkstown]

Thanks Alf - yes, she is Mary F S Letts (of Letts Diaries family) - there are 2 records for her in your kind attachment, one stating her Rank as VAD and Rank at Termination as Red Cross, the other stating her Rank and Rank at Termination as VAD Red Cross. I don't know whether there is anything significant in the difference there. As a VAD from June 1915, she would have had her own uniform surely so I don't understand why she would be using her sister's ....  She was obviously highly regarded in Linden as she used to accompany soldiers to church on Sundays and the soldiers were allowed (except during the Rising and its immediate aftermath) to go to the Letts home (less than half a mile away) to play billiards and relax.

[alf mcm]

These are images of Mary's actual Red Cross record cards, as seen on the British Red Cross website:-

 https://vad.redcross.org.uk/Card?sname=letts&id=133418

 https://vad.redcross.org.uk/Card?sname=letts&id=133417

Regards,

Alf Mc

 

Edited 29 May , 2022 by alf mcm

[monkstown]

Yes thanks Alf - Is it just me who can't access the 'pink card' image (at the bottom of the listing) any longer?  I know the webmaster told me a year or so ago that they were having problems but I haven't managed to access the images of the handwritten cards since then (I do have the images saved for the Letts sisters however). 

[alf mcm]

If I click in the links in my post I can see the pink cards at the bottom of the page.

  I have just noticed that 'Letts, Nurse, Miss M., V.A.D., Linden Aux. Hosp., Stillorgan, Blackrock, Co. Dublin.'  was 'brought to the notice of the Secretary of State for War'. Her notice appeared in The Times on 18th August 1919, page 17.

Regards,

Alf McM

[monkstown]

Thanks Alf - I still can't get the pink card so it must be something wrong on my laptop - I was amazed that the problem could have gone on so long - I'm at fault, not the system.

 

Raldal (Ralph) kindly sent me that 'Despatches' information also following a previous posting.

 

Edited 29 May , 2022 by monkstown

[Matlock1418]

On 29/05/2022 at 17:12, monkstown said:

Is it just me who can't access the 'pink card' image (at the bottom of the listing) any longer? 

Left mouse clicking alone didn't work for me.

However - Have you tried right mouse clicking on the image links?

= then choose Open image in a new tab by left mouse clicking on that option.

Worked for me.

M

Edited 31 May , 2022 by Matlock1418

[FROGSMILE]

On 29/05/2022 at 09:20, monkstown said:

Hopefully one of the forum members is following in the footsteps of the late Sue Light in regard to expertise on uniforms etc. and will be able to assist me here ...

I have access to a diary written by a VAD working in Linden Auxiliary Hospital, Blackrock, Co. Dublin during Easter Week, 1916 -  the Easter Rising in Dublin.

May 4th 1916: [I] saw many Red Cross nurses cycling across town in their white veils ...

May 15th 1916: I first burst upon the Institution in my new Red Cross uniform; the girls, of course, pretended to be 'struck of a heap', but the Rev. Mother approved, which was a comfort, as I much regretted leaving off the St John's cap, and {my sister's] most comfortable grey dresses which she left me on going off to an English hospital; however it seems wished by the aid corps that everyone should appear in her true colours.

 

Sue Light wrote on Scarletfinders: VADs who were part of the Order of St. John wore grey dresses rather than the BRCS mid-blue, but in black and white photos this distinction is very hard to make. The diary entry above  suggests to me that the writer was originally (June 1915) a St John Ambulance 'recruit' as a VAD but that by May 1916 she (and others, presumably) had been subsumed into the BRCS?  Am I correct in this? 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

Although the two organisations worked together to form and sustain the VAD system, the uniforms had some distinct differences, for ward dress, overcoats, hats, and administrative staff and, being British, there were some quite clear lines of demarcation.  These are explained visually quite well in contemporary posters, but what Sue Light was referring to is the occasional difficulty with black and white photography.  However, there are some clear markers even though occasionally rules were broken, or impossible to follow because of local circumstances.  In general though there were four types of VAD:

1.  British Red Cross.  Above all other features was a Red Cross front and centre on the bib front of the nurses shift.  Other VADs did not wear that.  The under dress was a mid shade of blue and the winter overcoat** was dark blue and single breasted.

2. Order of St John.  Above all other features was a special armlet (left arm unless a Red Cross armlet also worn) with a black background, the order of St John emblem and surrounding it any special description of role.  The bib front of the nurses shift was plain white.  The under dress was a mid grey and the winter overcoat** was black and double breasted.  Red Cross armlets could be worn according to local practice.

3.  Unaligned auxiliary nurse.  These were nurses who wished to join the VAD, but for a variety of reasons (sometimes religious) did not wish to be formally aligned with either, the British Red Cross, or Order of St John.  You can think of them as non conformists.  There was no absolute rigid structure to their dress, but in general the bib front of their nurses shift was also plain white.  The under dress was apparently a charcoal grey, but I imagine that there were variations across Britain.  Perhaps unsurprisingly they do not appear to have had strict regulation of their winter coats at all.  One strict feature was the requirement to wear their white nurses caps short and simple.

4.  Professionally qualified pre war nurses.  These nurses were often older and so more senior and rather like the unaligned VADs wore a plain white bib front over a plain shift dress.  No strict regulation regarding the latter apparently, but it was often dark blue.  The big tell tale of these nurses (if senior) was often a much longer, ‘nightingale’ style white nurses cap, of the type also worn by sisters and matrons in the regular and auxiliary Army nursing services.

**these winter coats often seem to have been worn by the administrative staff with nurses commonly wearing a short nurses cloak unless they were deploying overseas with the coat as part of their kit.

Edited 1 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[monkstown]

Frogsmile - thanks very much for all that - I particularly love the ad cut from the newspaper.

 

This photo is from the same diary and shows - I am pretty sure - VADs (and maybe others) at Linden Auxiliary Hospital, Blackrock. A couple of definite Red Cross VADs and possibly the black armlet of a St John Ambulance VAD, although it's on her right arm and she doesn't seem to have a RC one on left arm. Why would VADs wear both?

Most in, I imagine, mid-grey and one in a definitely darker dress; one without any cap?  and two with watches - does that suggest they are qualified nurses maybe?

 

Not dated unfortunately but it is in a diary re 1916 but in many cases in this diary,  photos have been added later to the text.

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the help.

 

 

 

Edited 31 May , 2022 by monkstown

[FROGSMILE]

21 hours ago, monkstown said:

Frogsmile - thanks very much for all that - I particularly love the ad cut from the newspaper.

 

This photo is from the same diary and shows - I am pretty sure - VADs (and maybe others) at Linden Auxiliary Hospital, Blackrock. A couple of definite Red Cross VADs and possibly the black armlet of a St John Ambulance VAD, although it's on her right arm and she doesn't seem to have a RC one on left arm. Why would VADs wear both?

Most in, I imagine, mid-grey and one in a definitely darker dress; one without any cap?  and two with watches - does that suggest they are qualified nurses maybe?

 

Not dated unfortunately but it is in a diary re 1916 but in many cases in this diary,  photos have been added later to the text.

 

Thanks again to everyone for all the help.

 

That is a super photo of a typical group of VADs, two from BRC, at least one OSJ, maybe two unaligned auxiliaries in darker underdress with notably open collars, and perhaps two professionally qualified (marked out by typical nurse type fob watches on their bibs - as you suggested- and cloth badge left arm).

Some arms are obscured unfortunately, but all I can say about the OSJ armlet is regulations stated left arm unless Red Cross armlets were also worn.  There doesn’t appear to have been a consistent nationwide (i.e.home establishment) practice for nurses wearing the latter armlets, it varied between hospitals.

The girl in longer white blouse and apron appears to be a cook if I were to guess.

Edited 1 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Afternote:  looking again at the girl in the doorway I think that she might be a masseuse from the APMC, rather than a cook, as her outfit of long apron, etc. looks remarkably like the photo that I posted in your other thread. 

Edited 1 June , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[monkstown]

very interesting!

[Madmeg]

St John ladies were stuck with that outdated Grey for many many years, at least in new zealand before the order was reluctantly dragged kicking and screaming into the 18th century somewhere round about the 70s :-) or maybe even the 80s

so if you wanted to look for the colour a check fir later photos from nz might help.

for descriptions of various nurses uniforms there are some great contemporary descriptions of the various branches of nurses marching in end of war paradesin london which I found when looking at another thread about uniforms ( specifically referring to ambulance staff) . I think these were on Trove the Australian site. But might have been paperspast the nz site.

I'm with frogsmile re the masseuse. There are other pictures of Almeria Paget masseuses wearing those white coats. And it seems more likely that a masseuse would be photographed with the nurses rather than a cook.

the lass in the dark under dress might be a trainee?

Edited 5 June , 2022 by Madmeg

[monkstown]

Thanks Madmeg - everything helps!