The 'Big Gun' Captured by Australian 3rd Inf Batt August 1918

[Gunner Bailey]

I've recently bought a photo album put together by a Royal Engineer officer in France, in 1918. One of the two photos just labelled 'Big Gun' shows a sign left on it saying "Captured by the 3rd Inf Battalion Australian Division 23rd August 1918".

As the Allied offensive began on the 8th August this must be well to the east of Amiens. Does anyone know the location? 

Edited 11 May , 2022 by Gunner Bailey

[Wigeon]

3 Infantry Battalion War Diary contains a " Report on Attack carried out near PROYART, France on 23 Aug 1918." which states that " ..one platoon No 11 passed through the wood at R.17.A.7.8 and secured the 15 inch siege gun which was destroyed." There is a somewhat indifferent map accompanying the report but fortunately a rather clearer one is available in the 2nd Brigade diary for August. If I have read the map correctly the map ref is in an un-named wood lying South East of CHUIGNOLLES. Wikipedia describes Chuignolles as approx 20 miles east of Amiens.

Both Diaries are the on-line versions from AWM.

Nice photos.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

The full map co-ordinate will be

62d.R.17.A.7.8

Enter that into the tMapper search box at https://www.tmapper.com/
That will give you a modern day map and trench map side by side, and exactly where Wigeon placed it.

Edited 11 May , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Gunner Bailey]

9 hours ago, Wigeon said:

3 Infantry Battalion War Diary contains a " Report on Attack carried out near PROYART, France on 23 Aug 1918." which states that " ..one platoon No 11 passed through the wood at R.17.A.7.8 and secured the 15 inch siege gun which was destroyed." There is a somewhat indifferent map accompanying the report but fortunately a rather clearer one is available in the 2nd Brigade diary for August. If I have read the map correctly the map ref is in an un-named wood lying South East of CHUIGNOLLES. Wikipedia describes Chuignolles as approx 20 miles east of Amiens.

Both Diaries are the on-line versions from AWM.

Nice photos.

 

7 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

The full map co-ordinate will be

62d.R.17.A.7.8

Enter that into the tMapper search box at https://www.tmapper.com/
That will give you a modern day map and trench map side by side, and exactly where Wigeon placed it.

Thank you very much, that's brilliant information. I think I have the IGN map of the area so I can pinpoint it on that.

[Gunner Bailey]

I've found the IGN. The spot is marked 'Bois du Gros Canon'.

How about that for 100 years later?

I wonder what's on the ground now?

[AOK4]

10 minutes ago, Gunner Bailey said:

I've found the IGN. The spot is marked 'Bois du Gros Canon'.

How about that for 100 years later?

I wonder what's on the ground now?

See https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/hauts-de-france/chuignes-80-la-grosse-bertha-trouve-son-musee-1070617.html

and https://www.cirkwi.com/fr/circuit/50665-circuit-du-gros-canon

[stripeyman]

Quite awhile ago, probably last last century the Camera Returns  team went there. It was then, unless now cleared, a mass of dense foliage/bushes/trees. However in the field at the edge I picked up a  heavy lump of casting from the gun. I will find it and post a pic on this topic. I believe the muzzle section is now in Australia.

[Chasemuseum]

The gun was blown-up by the Germans on 8 August 1918 to prevent capture during the 1st Battle of Amiens. The site was not actually captutred until the 23rd of August with the 2nd Battle of Amiens.

 

Billy Hughes wanted the gun brought back to Australia as a trophy but the cost of recovery was too great so it was turned into a war memorial in-situ. When the Germans occupied France during WW2 it was cut up and removed for scrap.

 

 

[Gunner Bailey]

8 hours ago, AOK4 said:

See https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/hauts-de-france/chuignes-80-la-grosse-bertha-trouve-son-musee-1070617.html

and https://www.cirkwi.com/fr/circuit/50665-circuit-du-gros-canon

 

7 hours ago, stripeyman said:

Quite awhile ago, probably last last century the Camera Returns  team went there. It was then, unless now cleared, a mass of dense foliage/bushes/trees. However in the field at the edge I picked up a  heavy lump of casting from the gun. I will find it and post a pic on this topic. I believe the muzzle section is now in Australia.

 

2 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

The gun was blown-up by the Germans on 8 August 1918 to prevent capture during the 1st Battle of Amiens. The site was not actually captutred until the 23rd of August with the 2nd Battle of Amiens.

Billy Hughes wanted the gun brought back to Australia as a trophy but the cost of recovery was too great so it was turned into a war memorial in-situ. When the Germans occupied France during WW2 it was cut up and removed for scrap.

 

Many thanks great input. I can't think how many tons the barrel must have weighed. A heck of a souvenir. No doubt the Germans in WW2 made more cannons out of it. I suspect the quality of the metal was pretty good.

[jay dubaya]

Whilst browsing old newspapers I came across an article printed in the Scotsman on 17th October 1925, I assume the 12' length of barrel which made its way to Sydney is actually the 38cm railway gun and not from the gun picture above. 

A nice find in the CWGC archive - I find mother nature amusing and reassuring in the use of such a violent weapon as a home for bees...

 

[Chasemuseum]

The photos and the plate are two separate guns. The 15-inch gun at Chuignes was blown up by the Germans on the 8th of August but not captured until the 23rd of August. The 11-inch railway gun was captured intact on the 8th of August and brought to Australia. It was on display in Sydney for most of the 20s and 30s and moved o Canberra just prior to WW2 in anticipation of the opening of the War Memorial in Canberra. During WW2 the barrel was removed and the carriage taken to South Australia to use to proof fire naval gun barrels. At the end of the war it was moved to Bandiana in Victoria. This was organized by an Ordnance Corps officer Ted Millet. Unfortunately Ted was demobilized before he could arrange for it to be moved back to Canberra. It stayed at Bandiana until about 1965 when the Army insisted on getting rid of it. War Memorial didn't want it so it was sold as scrap and cut up. The barrel is still on display outside the War Memorial. 

[jay dubaya]

On 07/08/2023 at 09:38, Chasemuseum said:

The photos and the plate are two separate guns.

I realise the photos are of one gun and the plate describes the other - but the plate was made from the gun in the photos hence my addition of the image. Would be interesting to know what happened to the 12' length of barrel which was removed during the early 20s.

[Chasemuseum]

It's presumably in the Australian War Memorial reserve collection. I have never seen it on display. It was not part of the Army Corps of Artillery museum collection. When that was at North Head, I was familiar with the heavy items in their reserve collection. When that museum closed the collection went into storage in shipping containers at Puckapunyal and is still in storage. I do not expect to see that collection on proper display again in my lifetime.

 

War Memorial culled a lot of material in the 1960s. Lots of trophy material was sold as scrap metal and sent to the furnaces. So there is a good chance that it no longer exists. THat being said there is also a good chance that it is just in a box and totally forgotten.