These 2 pictures are driving me crazy...

[Buffnut453]

I stumbled across these 2 pictures that form part of the Arthur George Simmons Collection at New Forest Knowledge (NFK) (https://nfknowledge.org/contributions/the-crash-that-saved-my-life/#map=10/-1.48/50.81/0/24:0:0.6|39:1:1|40:1:1).  They show a relative of mine, James Gamble, who served on 11 Sqn in the period Sep 1918 thru Jul 1919.

According to NFK, the images were taken at East Boldre Aerodrome and the lack of wings might suggest that the image was taken during flying training. However, there are a number of features that don't make sense for that location, including: the presence of at least 2 known Observers in the image (I can't imagine why Observers would be at a Training Squadron/Training Depot Station); at least 3, and perhaps 4, of the men also appear in a photo of 11 Sqn SNCOs taken around Jun/Jul 1919 at Spich, Germany (it would be an incredible coincidence for so many friends from East Boldre to appear on the same squadron months later), and; my relative, Jim Gamble, was never stationed at East Boldre and his logbook shows no record of him ever landing there.  

 

The first photograph shows a group shot with Arthur George Simmons on the left and Jim Gamble second from right, wearing the US Army Air Service hat.  The seated man in flying gear is one of two unidentified Sergeant Pilots who also appears in the Jun/Jul image: he's either William Walter Franklin or William Henry George Spencer.  I suspect the man in this image is William Franklin based on an assessed date of another photo from the Jim Gamble collection which likely shows William Spencer.  The man standing at right, and the man seated immediately to the right of Arthur Simmons are both Observers.  The other man, standing to the right of Arthur Simmons, may be Sergeant Pilot Arthur William Wallace.   

 

The second image shows Arthur Simmons, Jim Gamble and an American Sergeant, apparently from the 17th Aero Squadron.  I suspect this was taken at the same time as the first photograph, and that Jim Gamble "borrowed" the American's hat for the first photo.  I'm guessing the American Sergeant is an Observer based on his wearing fug boots, but I'm not smart enough on US Army Air Service ranks and insignia to know this for sure.  

 

Now for the frustrating part...I'm struggling to determine where and when the photo might have been taken.  As noted above, I don't think it was East Boldre.  I looked at each of the pilots' service records (Arthur Simmons, Jim Gamble, William Franklin, and William Spencer) to see if there are any dates and locations that correlate sufficiently to identify the place and time of the images.  Unfortunately, no such correlation is 100% sufficient to cover all the personnel visible in the photo.  The posting records for each Sergeant Pilot are listed below, with the arrival date for a particular unit followed by the location and duration at that location:

James Gamble (3594):

• 1 School of Military Aeronautics:  24 Nov 1917 thru 21 Jan 1918
• 24 Trg Sqn:  21 Jan 1918 (Netheravon thru 13 Feb 1918)
• 8 Trg Sqn:  13 Feb 1918 (Netheravon thru 1 Apr 1918; Witney thru 3 Jul 1918)
• 1 Fighting School:  2 Jul 1918 thru 15 Jul 1918
• 1 (Observers) School of Aerial Gunnery:  15 Jul 1918 (Romney Marsh thru 7 Sep 1918)
• 11 Sqn:  7 Sep 1918 (Le Quesnoy thru 19 Sep 1918; Vert Galant thru 15 Oct 1918; Mory thru 1 Nov 1918; Bethencourt thru 18 Nov 1918; Aulnoy thru 19 Dec 1918; Nivelles thru 20 May 1919; Spich thru 31 Jul 1919 )

William Walter Franklin (93083):

• 104 Sqn:  18 Jan 1918 (Andover thru 6 Apr 1918)
• 6 TDS:  6 Apr 1918 (Boscombe Down thru 12 Aug 1918)
• 1 Fighting School:  12 Aug 1918 thru 8 Sep 1918
• 109 Sqn:  8 Sep 1918 (Location???)
• BEF:  27 Sep 1918
• 206 Sqn:  4 Oct 1918 (Ste Marie Capelle thru 23 Oct 1918; Linselles East thru 25 Nov 1918; Nivelles East thru 18/21 Dec 1918; Bickendorf thru 26 May 1919)
• 18 Sqn:  8 May 1919 (Bickendorf/Merheim)
• 11 Sqn:  12 Jun 1919 (Spich, Germany)

William Henry George Spencer (56446):

• School of Aeronautics, Denham:  1 Dec 1918 (Denham thru 18 Jan 1918)
• 38 Trg Sqn:  18 Jan 1918 (Rendcombe thru 21 Jun 1918)
• 2 Fighting School:  21 Jun 1918 (Marske thru 4 Aug 1918)
• Wireless Telephony School:  4 Aug 1918 (thru 12 Aug 1918)
• 2 Fighting School:  12 Aug 1918 (Marske thru 11 Sep 1918)
• 48 Sqn:  11 Sep 1918 (Boisdinghem thru 30 Sep, Marie Ste. Capel thru 23 Oct)
• UK:  22 Oct 1918
• 20 Sqn:  31 Jan 1919 (Ossogne (east of Namur) thru 2 Apr 1919)
• 2 ASD:  3 Apr 1919
• 57 Sqn:  16 May 1919 (probably an admin error given the posting to 11 Sqn on same date)
• 11 Sqn:  16 May 1919 (just 4 days before 11 Sqn moved to Spich, Germany)

Arthur George Simmons (4975):

• 1 School of Military Aeronautics:  8 Dec 1917 thru 2 Feb 1918
• 55 Trg Sqn:  ?? Feb 1918 (Castle Bromwich/Lilbourne thru 26 Mar 1918)
• 1 Trg Sqn:  26 Mar 1918 (East Boldre thru 27 Jul 1918)
• 29 TDS:  27 Jul 1918 (East Boldre thru 8 Aug 1918)
• RD:  8 Aug 1918 (Farnborough? thru 29 Sep 1918)
• BEF:  29 Sep 1918
• 20 Sqn:  3 Oct 1919 (Proyart thru 7 Oct 1918; Moislains thru 25 Oct 1918; Iris Farm thru 3 Dec 1918; Ossogne (east of Namur) thru 31 May 1919)
• 84 Sqn:  23 Apr 1919 (Bickendorf and Eil thru 14 Aug 1919)

 

Based on the above records, I've identified 3 possible windows where at least 3 of the Sergeant Pilots were in close proximity:

1. Nivelles/Ossogne:  3 Dec 1918 thru 18/21 Dec 1918.  This only works if Franklin is one of those present in the photo.  It can't be Spencer because he was in the UK at the time.  The big problem with this timeframe is that the 17th Aero Squadron wasn't anywhere particularly close to Nivelles/Ossogne.  
2. Nivelles/Ossogne:  31 Jan 1919 thru 2 Apr 1919 (Spencer).  This only works if Spencer is one of those present in the photo.  It can't be Franklin because he left the Nivelles area between 18-21 Dec 1918.  The problem here is that the 17th Aero Squadron had left France before the earliest date of this time window, although I suppose it's possible a few might have transferred to other units within the American occupation forces.
3. Spich/Bickendorf:  20 May 1919 thru 31 Jul 1919.  This works for all 4 RAF men.  However, the odds of a US Army Air Service Sergeant being in that area so late, particularly still wearing a 17th Aero Squadron shoulder badge, seems remote to me.  

 

The final twist in this long analysis is the backdrop of a fairly standard wooden hut.  Those were pretty ubiquitous, at least in the UK.  However, I don't know if they'd be built at any of the airfields on the continent where these men served.  

As things stand, I think #1 above is the most likely location and set of dates...but there are nagging doubts related to the American Sergeant and the wooden hut that may not align with this scenario.  

So...am I massively off-target with this analysis?  Have I missed any clues that might narrow down the range of options, or positively confirm that one location and set of dates tallies with all the evidence in the photos?  I know I've rambled on a bit in this post but I wanted to share all the info I've accessed, and the rationale for my assessment.  

Many thanks in advance for any advice anyone can provide to help me come to a more positive/satisfying conclusion.

Kind regards,

Mark  

Edited 10 May , 2022 by Buffnut453

[Buffnut453]

I had another thought about the American Sergeant.  It's possible he's wearing fug boots because he was given the chance for a back-seat ride in a British aircraft.  It's also possible he was an Observer as part of the 17th Aero Sqn.  If he falls into the latter category, then it would date the photographs as sometime after 25 Oct 1918 but before 15 Jan 1919.  The earliest date is based on when the 17th Aero Sqn gave up its Camels and prepared to operate SPAD XI two-seaters, hence the need for Observers.  The latter date is when the Sqn returned back to the States.  As noted above, a few stragglers may have remained after Jan 1919 but the longer time went on, the less likely (I think) that an old unit designator would be worn on the uniform.

Given the 17th Aero Sqn's transition from Camels to SPAD XIs, I'm wondering if the urgent need for Observers resulted in US personnel being seconded to RAF units to learn the trade?  That might explain the presence of the US Sergeant in these images....but, again, I'm hypothesizing with no factual basis for the ideas.  

Again, I know next to nothing about the US Army Air Service so any more expert comments on my thoughts would be very much appreciated.  

Edited 10 May , 2022 by Buffnut453