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Remembered Today:

Henry Holland & 13th London Regt.


JMB1943
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Holland, Henry, Pte., 3378, 2nd Bn Royal Sussex Regt., appears on the Medal Rolls of 13th London Regt., as follows;

1(a) 11-1-15 to   9-5-15; 1a = France & Belgium;[probably wounded at Richebourg L'Avoue (14 Offcrs + 548 Or's were casualties).]

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

4(a) 13-3-16 to 18-3-16; 4a = British East Africa, German East Africa, Rhodesia, Nyasaland and Uganda ?

OR 

  • 4A Egypt (up to 18/19 March 1916)
  • ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4(b) 19-3-16 to 24-7-18; 4b = German South West Africa ?

OR 

  • 4B Egypt (from 18/19 March 1916
  • ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4(b) 25-7-18 to 31-5-19; 4b = German South West Africa ?

LLT gives following for 2/13th LR

22 June 1916 : landed at Le Havre.
November 1916 : moved to Salonika.
2 July 1917 : moved to Egypt, arriving Alexandria 5 July.

Am I confusing theatres of pre- and post-1916 ?

Where was he physically on 31-5-19 ?

Was this date of demob., or date sailed from theatre?

Regards,

JMB

 

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14 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Holland, Henry, Pte., 3378, 2nd Bn Royal Sussex Regt., appears on the Medal Rolls of 13th London Regt.,

Suspect a small error - with Royal Sussex number of 7738 [and a London number of 495078]

Is that right?

M

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M,

You are correct!!

I'm currently slightly punch-drunk with numbers......

Regards,

JMB

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Posted (edited)

Can nobody help ?

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
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I don’t have the answer for you but was going to suggest a possible route that might be worth investigating.

The Service Medal Roll seems to show shows he was with the London Regiment at the time of the Territorial Force renumbering.

The service number did indeed come from the block allocated to the 13th Battalion – 490001 to 510000, but at 495078 seems a bit high for it to have been issued as part of the renumbering. I could be wrong but sounds more like to have been used for a man transferred into the 13th Battalion subsequently. I know the London Regiment can be renumbering can be a nightmare, so I am only saying that very, very tentatively :)https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

I’ve tried a search of the CWGC database for London Regiment men with service numbers commencing 4950* and drawn a complete blank which to me suggests either a very late renumbering or service out Europe – and even then a lack of deaths from ill health or accident seems odd.

There are many ways the renumbering scheme could be applied, but the most common would seem to be in the order that a man was originally added to the roll of the battalion. It doesn’t though help with whether they went to a 1st line, 2nd line or 3rd line unit at the point.

And of course if it was a new number as a result of being transferred in then that will tell you something about which unit he was with.

Either way I’m going to suggest a near number search. Looking at the MiC records and checking for surviving service records indexed on FindMyPast, (sorry don’t subscribe to either FMP or Ancestry, so can’t check them out further).

495071 James J. Rowson 13th Londons ex 14553 Royal Irish Rifles. FMP showing surviving service record.

495073 William Hooper 13th Londons ex 632702 20th London Regiment (also shown as 495072 13th London – I suspect in error). FMP showing surviving service record under 495073.

495074 Alfred Booker 13th Londons ex 7058 14th Londons. FMP showing surviving service record.

495076 Thomas Cashman  13th Londons ex G/22157 Royal Sussex Regiment. FMP showing surviving discharge record.

495079 John Collins 13th Londons ex 4120 Royal Sussex Regiment. FMP showing surviving discharge record.

495080 Charles Ball 13th London ex 01777 RASC and G/25698 Royal Sussex Regiment. FMP showing surviving discharge record.

495081 John F. Lewis 13th Londons ex 201773 Royal Sussex Regiment.

495082 Thomas Bushby 13th Londons ex RTS/1384 RASC and 76202 Cheshire.

495083 John H Higgins 13th Londons ex W/179 8th Cheshire Regiment. FMP showing surviving service record.

495084 William J King 13th London ex 68553 RAMC and 76040 7th Cheshire. FMP showing surviving service record.

495085 Frank Blenkin 13th Londons ex 33769 Notts & Derby and 76174 Cheshire.

495087 Norman Irving 13th London ex 45170 RAMC and 76011 Cheshire

495089 William E A Stevens 13th Londons ex 104269 Notts & Derby and 76159 Cheshire. FMP showing surviving service record.

Interesting little pattern there around 495078 Henry Holland with regard to the Royal Sussex Regiment.

I appreciate that could be a lot of legwork for what turns out to be very little reward. Some of those FMP service records may even be one page memo’s or even bits of scrap paper that have been found in other mens records, and so won’t appear on Ancestry.

However in the absence of any other suggestions it may be worth a try.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Cheers,
Peter

Edited by PRC
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There are 6 comprehensive service records for Henry Holland on Find My Past. There are common items in each but each record has slight differences. Links below.

British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk

British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk

British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk

British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk

British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk

British Army Service Records 1914-1920 Image | findmypast.co.uk

If the OP has access to Find My Past, he has a lot of reading to do.

One interesting thing I read was that when he came out of the Royal Sussex Regiment, he declared that he wished to live in Australia. As a reservist, he had to obtain permission which was granted in 1910. He sailed to Australia on the SS Norseman, leaving England on the 25 October 1910. One requirement was that he as he was a reservist, he had to register with the authorities in Australia. (image courtesy of Find My Past)

Another item that caught my eye was Army Form W. 3226 which states that when with the 2/13th Btn London regiment, he was with the Military Police. (image courtesy of Find My Past)

 

 

Holland_permission to go to Australia 1910.jpg

Holland.jpg

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PRC, Woodnbits, Allan,

Interesting that HH is given as 2/4th RSR in the Pension Record, while I had him as 2nd.

Time that I open an account with FMP.

Many thanks for providing those pointers.

That will keep me off the streets for a good while!

Regards,

JMB

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