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Can anyone help identify this uniform please?


rward
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18 hours ago, rward said:

A1B27045-3C02-446B-8647-298C12CCD250.jpeg

A Volunteer Battalion (auxiliary forces) part-time soldier of the York and Lancaster Regiment before the 2nd Anglo/Boer War.  I’d date it to between 1890-1899.  The woven thread shoulder title indicates he is from the 1st (Hallamshire) Volunteer Battalion Y&L.

Formed in 1859 as The Hallamshire Volunteer Rifle Corps, with its headquarters at Sheffield. The title Hallamshire came from the ancient lordship of West Riding that comprised the parishes of Sheffield, Ecclesfield and Bradfield. In 1862 the Hallamshire Rifles were presented with Colours. In 1881 with the reorganisation of the British Army, during the Cardwell Reforms, the unit became a volunteer battalion for the York and Lancaster Regiment and was renamed the 1st (Hallamshire) Volunteer Battalion.  In 1909, a year after the formation of the Territorial Force it was retitled as the 4th (Hallamshire) Battalion Y&L (Territorial Force).  For insignia see: https://www.yorkandlancasterregimentbadges.com/volunteer-glengarry-badges/nco-s-glengarry-badge-of-the-1st-hallamshire-volunteer-battalion-used-between-1883-and-1902

He is dressed for walking out from barracks known as a drill hall, which he attended weekly for training and that was invariably quite near to his home.  His uniform comprises a plain dark blue glengarry cap with regimental badge bearing the unit title and he is distinguished from his regular counterparts by the elaborate Austrian knots formed from white piping that decorate the cuffs of his scarlet tunic.  Each year the volunteers attended a fortnight’s annual training camp for which they received a bounty in the form of a cash lump sum.  It was the nearest thing to a holiday that such young men had and, as well as military training, competitive sports were encouraged.

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Edited by FROGSMILE
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Hi Frogsmile,

firstly thank you so much for such a detailed response! 
unfortunately for me, what you have suggested opens up more questions. The person in question is my great great uncle, born 1896. I have found his medal roll stating he served with 1/6 Lancashire Fusiliers from 1915. Are there any suggetions these 2 pieces of info and the dates can be consolidated?

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21 minutes ago, rward said:

The person in question is my great great uncle, born 1896. I have found his medal roll stating he served with 1/6 Lancashire Fusiliers from 1915

To help us help you could you share his name and number please? Otherwise it becomes a little needle and haystack like

Thanks

George

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Morning George

sorry yes that would help!

Pte Harry Thornsby

serv no 10812 1/6th Lanc Fusiliers 1914-1918

serv no 241327 1st Lanc Fusiliers 1918

he was wounded in 1918 (though unsure how).

I have obtained this from Service Medal and Award Rolls on Ancestry, and the fact he was wounded from the NLS Weekly Casualty List from 1918. 

In addition, he got married at home in 1917.

I'm guessing that he was just allowed leave in 1917, but was that common?

i'm just trying to learn as much as I can but my experience of WW1 lookups is very limited!

Anything you can help or suggested sources would be v appreciated

 

 

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26 minutes ago, rward said:

Pte Harry Thornsby

Is he Harry Clifford Thornsby married Beverley Yorkshire 1917?

George

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1 hour ago, rward said:

Hi Frogsmile,

firstly thank you so much for such a detailed response! 
unfortunately for me, what you have suggested opens up more questions. The person in question is my great great uncle, born 1896. I have found his medal roll stating he served with 1/6 Lancashire Fusiliers from 1915. Are there any suggetions these 2 pieces of info and the dates can be consolidated?

I can’t help with the genealogy I’m afraid, but there are real experts in that field here in the forum who will (such as George Rayner).  Rest assured though that it’s quite common for a former auxiliary soldier from a Volunteer Battalion around the turn of the century to then find himself back in a Territorial Force unit during WW1.  

Edited by FROGSMILE
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rward,

The detailed inforrmation given above by Frogsmile should make you think again about the identity of the man in the photograph.

If the date of the photograph is no later than 1899, then the man in the photograph is not Harry Thornsby, or anyone born in 1896.

Maybe someone from the previous generation?

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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I think you have jumped to conclusions about the Harry Thornsby in the medal rolls being the same man in the photo. The Harry Thornsby in the photo is more likely to have been the HT born about 1870 in Hoyland which is within the recruitment area of the Y&L Regt. 
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/5th_Battalion,_York_and_Lancaster_Regiment

Charlie

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24 minutes ago, charlie2 said:

I think you have jumped to conclusions about the Harry Thornsby in the medal rolls being the same man in the photo. The Harry Thornsby in the photo is more likely to have been the HT born about 1870 in Hoyland which is within the recruitment area of the Y&L Regt. 
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/5th_Battalion,_York_and_Lancaster_Regiment

Charlie

Thanks Charlie, I think that’s a good steer as I suspect I’ve misread the shoulder title in the OP slightly, if it’s actually 2-V-Y&L rather than 1-V-Y&L then the successor unit would have been 5th Battalion Y&L (Territorial Force).  I suspect that you have solved the identity of the sitter.

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Hi Charlie,

yes I think you could be right! It seems like the photo may have been mislabelled! This all helps considerably with my research!

Many thanks to all of you. This is a fantastic forum!

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