Photograph - 39 TDS ?

[hmsk212]

Hi

 

I am trying to confirm details of the attached photograph of a football team that I believe was  from 39 TDS dating from probably late 1918 early 1919. I think that in the top row the Captain was Andrew Cullen Wyness, Flight Cadet was Harry Warby and Flight Sergeant was John Henry Dakin any other identifications / information gratefully received. I must also assume as there are 10 players plus the trainer then the 11th player was the person taking the picture.  Steve

 

 

[nils d]

Well your missing player is the goalkeeper .

Remember,a goalie is like a pilot, you want one with a safe pair of hands.

[PRC]

Lt. Burges (Captain).

There is an AIR76 record for a C. Burges which shows him with 39 TDS with effect from the 5th October 1918 until the 27th February 1919. But no sign of a commissioning - he is shown as a Flight Cadet.  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8197509

It starts with him moving from an "Arm. Sch" on the 1st September 1918.

It's a possible co-incidence but there is also an AIR 76 record for an Honorary 2nd Lieutenant Charlie Burges that ends with him being posted to an "Arm. Sch" on the 31st August 1918.

Apologies if I've got any of the dates slightly wrong - I'm working from the watermarked preview versions in the National Archive as my computer is getting pretty full with files downloaded from the National Archive

Cheers,
Peter

[hmsk212]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your input.

317353 Pte 2 Charles Burges, Flight Cadet C Burges and Hon 2 Lt Charlie Burges are all the same man as all have the reference to him having been M/2 099768 with the ASC prior to joining the RAF. He arrived at 39TDS on 5 Oct 1918 and whilst there he would have been a Flight Cadet as he was not made an Honorary 2nd Lieutenant until the day he left 39TDS on 27th Feb 1919. I am sure, however, that he is the man named as the Captain of the team just his rank is wrong.

 

Steve

Edited 17 April , 2022 by hmsk212

[PRC]

"Flight Commander Macullum".

No obvious match for anyone with that surname in the Air 76 series, but there is a record held at the National Archive which has merged two Air 76 for what is believed to be the same man - Alexander Charles McCallum and Alexander Charles McCullum. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8286837

However he isn't posted to 39 TDS, as a Cadet, until the 26th February 1919 - the day before Charlie Burges leaves.

There is a further Air 76 record for him that shows him promoted Lieutenant on the 25th March 1919. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8200320

In the absence of another candidate, given that the two men were only with the unit for two calendar days, it must be doubtful whether this group ever played a competitive match together.

Cheers,
Peter

[nils d]

Burges was commissioned into the ASC prior to joining the RFC so was granted the honourary rank of 2nd lieutenant without the pay or privilege of that rank and would have been treated and paid as a lowly cadet by the RFC until he qualified.The sergeants could still shout at him but would have to call him 'Mr Buges'.

[hmsk212]

On 17/04/2022 at 11:08, nils d said:

.The sergeants could still shout at him but would have to call him 'Mr Buges'.

Thanks for that, its a bit like in my day when Officers from other Regiments came to Aldershot & Brize Norton to get their Parachute wings.

 

Steve

[hmsk212]

On 17/04/2022 at 10:35, PRC said:

"Flight Commander Macullum".

No obvious match for anyone with that surname in the Air 76 series, but there is a record held at the National Archive which has merged two Air 76 for what is believed to be the same man - Alexander Charles McCallum and Alexander Charles McCullum. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8286837

However he isn't posted to 39 TDS, as a Cadet, until the 26th February 1919 - the day before Charlie Burges leaves.

There is a further Air 76 record for him that shows him promoted Lieutenant on the 25th March 1919. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8200320

In the absence of another candidate, given that the two men were only with the unit for two calendar days, it must be doubtful whether this group ever played a competitive match together.

Cheers,
Peter

Thanks Peter, I do wonder if the dates in the various records are accurate. I would have to assume the dates in the records are when the paperwork was completed or submitted for the movement/posting and not necessarily when the movement/posting actually took place. 

 

Steve