Royal Fusiliers & 19th Manchesters

[james drury]

Hi all 

Just wondering if any Royal Fusiliers experts could give any tips. 

Looking at a man  GS10007 Harold Purbrick. 

No service record - as far as I can see. 

Have his medal rolls - states 9th RF 6th - 11th July 1916 then attached to 19th Manchesters 12th July to 16th  Feb 1919

Have the war diary for both the 19th Manchesters an 9th RF. 

19th Manchesters WD notes A draft of 224OR including men from the RF  joining  the  19th Manchesters at Corbie on the 13th July so I assume he was part of this attached draft. 

My assumption was he headed to France in July 1916 intended for the RF but was sent / attached to reinforce the 19th Manchesters on arrival with the other  223 men - have checked the RF medal rolls for men doing the 19th Manchesters on the 12th July  and all say attached - would this mean a short attachment to support, the Manchesters were quite depleted in strength at this point. 

Harold is taken POW on the 7th October 1916 at Gaudecourt  - the 9th RF were involved in an attack there on this day. His POW paperwork state B Coy 9th RF as his unit. 

Would it be usual for a man to be attached to a different unit on arrival in France for a short period, assuming this is what happened, then posted to his intended unit at a later date. 

All tips much appreciated - still learning... 

Thanks :-)

 

 

[Mark1959]

He appears in War Office Daily List No.5763 dated 4/1/1919 as Released Prisoner of War from Germany, arrived in England. 

Not come across that many who were re-deployed for a short period after disembarkation in theatre. Permanent redeployment was fairly common

[Allan1892]

POW details attached (courtesy of Find My Past)

[Allan1892]

Don't know if the image attached is of interest, he married shortly after he returned to the UK (image courtesy of Find My Past)

[james drury]

Thank you all :-)

Hadn't seen the marriage cutting so thanks for that :-)

I did wonder about the short term attachment to the Manchesters that's what made me curious - a fair few of the RF 'attached draft' were taken prisoner on the 23rd July - on their POW records for all of them I have found so far it states 19th Manchesters as their unit not RF. 

With Harolds  POW stating records RF I assumed he was with them by this point.  the 19th Manchesters were not near Gaudecourt  in October 1916 either. 

guess will never really know  - have been through the brigade and divisional diaries for the RF and 19th and no clue really. 

Thanks for all there help though ill keep hunting  - you never know :-)

 

[james drury]

Another quick question if you don't mind. 

I have found a newspaper article that gives his enlistment date as 25th November 1914 at Uxbridge drill hall - it was his 18th Birthday on the 29th November. 

On his medal roll he is noted as entering France on the 6th July 1916. 

Would it be normal for someone enlisting in late 1914 not to go to France until mid 1916 ? 

I'm assuming he went to Hounslow to the 5/6th Battalion for training following enlisting but that a pure guess.

Any tips again appreciated.  

[james drury]

Thank you so much for the amazing reply - I will  follow up on the suggested reading :-)

Have looked at the strength of the 19 Manchesters, 

1074 on the 30th June  and 839 on the 7th July  

draft of 89 arrived on the 9th July  and  light casualties until the 12th July when the draft of 224 RF, Surrey and Sussex were attached 

Your suggestion makes perfect sense that the draft would take the Manchesters back to almost full strength. 

Thank you :-)

[8055Bell]

Hi James,

Late to this post.  The Battalions of 30th Div had significant drafts of men attached from a range of Regiments in July 1916.  Many of the attached men were killed at Guillemont in the last week or so of July, including 7 men who died on 23/07/1916, attached from RF to the Manchesters - there may be more that I couldn't prove when I put forward amendments to CWGC.  The survivors were officially transferred to their attached Bn in the coming months, 1st Sept in the case of men attached to 17th Bn.  I am not aware of any large groups of drafts that didn't stay with their attached Regiment and think you can be confident your man stayed with 19th Bn.

ICRC records are not always accurate for the date of capture, or the Regiment in relation to men who had recently transferred.  Have a look at the War Diary entry for Flers 12/10/1916, next to door to Guedecourt.  This will be the period where he was captured.

I suggest you look at SDGW records for 19th Bn and see how many were previoulsy RF.

The Manchester Pals book by Michael Stedman does not paint a great picture of the welcome received by the men from the London & Home Counties.  From what I've seen, the attitude changed after Flers, where the esprit de corps of the original Clerks & Warehousmen was dilluted too much and the new men had also evidently proved their position in the ranks.

Cheers

Tim