Belhus Park

[Hugh2]

In July 1915 my grandfather, recently commissioned in the Rifle Brigade, was posted to the 14th (reserve) battalion at Belhus Park, Essex.  He wrote in his diary
“The training there was not good: unmethodical, haphazard, no enthusiasm or healthy and vigorous control.  I urged hard for early orders for France, and at last got them in September.”

He pasted in a fuzzy photo showing:
[standing] Pakenham, Whitworth, Keele, Acheson, Train, Agar-Robartes, Crebbin, Wenham, Purdon, Pitchford, de Chair, Newton;
[seated] QM Payne, Maj. Wyril, Col. Patton-Bethune (CO), Capt. Gott, Capt. Lowder (Adjt), Capt. Powle;
[cross-legged on ground] Baker, Liesching, Dakeyne, Grantham

Those seated were presumably staff, the others trainees.
I’ve tentatively identified some of the men, perhaps not always correctly
G.R.M. Pakenham, Royal Fusiliers
Charles Acland Keele (1894 – 1916)
the Hon. Cecil Edward Agar-Robartes (1892 – 1939)
C.H. Wenham, Alfred John Payne,
Douglas Elphinstone Patton-Bethune (1867 – 1934)
W.W.M. Gott, P. Lieschang, J.A. Grantham.

Does anyone have any comments?

 

[PRC]

The British Army Monthly Lists are quite often two to three months or more behind, so I took a look at the September 1915 list for the 14th Reserve Battalion. Looks like most of the names can be found there plus candidates for the other recently commissioned officers who might be present.

Image courtesy https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123016329

Image courtesy https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123016341

"Orphaned" at the bottom of the page containing the list of Second Lieutenants was:-

Adjutant

(Temp) Captain J. Lowder – 12th April 1915

Quartermaster

(Temp) hon. Lieutenant A.J. Payne – 22nd October 1914

2 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

Maj. Wyril,

MiC for Major Marmaduke Ibbetson Wyvill - surname as show in the abobe list.

Extract, (with thanks) from a bio from a site dedicated to the war dead of Ilkely.

"Like most of his male forebears he was educated at Eton College, however, unusually for a Wyvill, chose not to attend Cambridge University. Instead, he joined the army and was gazetted as an officer in the Rifle Brigade. In 1904 he took part in a long forgotten and punitive expedition against Tibet. Marmaduke Ibbetson left the army and married Marjorie Sykes in 1909. The partnership produced a son in 1913, Marmaduke Frederick. However, it appears that Marmaduke Ibbetson had gone to Canada only to return in 1914, at the outset of the war, to resume his career in the Rifle Brigade, Promoted to Major war seems to have been confined to depot duties in Sussex. Apparently beset by marital and financial problems, he was declared bankrupt in October 1915. In March 1916 he was admitted to a military hospital at Seaford, Sussex suffering from bronchitis and died on the 6th of that month. His body was taken back to the family seat at Constable Burton and buried in the church yard at Finghall. Marmaduke Ibbetson Wyvill is remembered on Ilkley War Memorial."http://ilkleyremembers.blogspot.com/2019/01/major-marmaduke-ibbetson-wyvill-3rd.html

Previous forum thread - his wife was probably divorcing him at the time the picture was takem, with bankruptcy to follow shortly afterwards.

I suspect the author - on the forum as @ilkley remembers might appreciate even a fuzzy picture of the man himself.

Having said which - there appears to be several images on the page of the Dundee Evening Telegraph that reported his death, so may be worthwhile checking that out just in case.

Image courtesy FindMyPast - newspaper will also be available on the British Newspaper Archive website.

3 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

Capt. Powle;

The Army list has a Captain E.P. Powles. Couldn't spot a MiC but there are long papers for a Captain Edward Paulet Powles, Kings Royal Rifle Corps

Hope that helps,
Peter

[stiletto_33853]

Hugh,

What comments are you looking for?? Would certainly like to see the picture:
Lamb, D. G., 1st RB, UK due to fever, home service only. To 5th Cadet Wing R.F.C.  November 1917, 5th RB June 1918.

Keele, C. A. 12th RB Kia 12/7/16

Crebbin, W. A. (MC) 8th RB, Kia 4/4/18, ex 4526 10th Royal Fusiliers

Wenham, C. H.,  to 8th RB 23/2/15, Died 1937

Purdon, S. F. 8th RB Wia 15/9/16

Lowder, J., 14th & 51st RB, aged 54, Died 1932,

Daykeyne, F. R. 9th RB 

Etc etc

 

Edited 11 April , 2022 by stiletto_33853

[Hugh2]

Many thanks, Peter.

Sorry: I can't provide even a fuzzy picture.  I have only a transcript made some years ago by a cousin (so I don't even know whether Grandpapa got some of the names wrong or whether his handwriting was hard to decipher).

 

[ilkley remembers]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

might appreciate even a fuzzy picture of the man himself.

 

52 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Sorry: I can't provide even a fuzzy picture

Yes fuzzy pictures are definately much appreciated, and I will keep my fingers crossed that one will turn up. Marmadukes divorce papers are on Ancestry and I seem to remember that an Irish actress played a starring role in the proceedings.

Thanks tagging me onto this thread

 

IR

[PRC]

9 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

I have only a transcript made some years ago by a cousin (so I don't even know whether Grandpapa got some of the names wrong or whether his handwriting was hard to decipher).

Does that mean that the original diary is no longer available, as that would be a real shame.

13 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

[standing] Pakenham, Whitworth, Keele, Acheson, Train, Agar-Robartes, Crebbin, Wenham, Purdon, Pitchford, de Chair, Newton;
[seated] QM Payne, Maj. Wyril, Col. Patton-Bethune (CO), Capt. Gott, Capt. Lowder (Adjt), Capt. Powle;
[cross-legged on ground] Baker, Liesching, Dakeyne, Grantham

Suggested identifications are:-

[standing]

Possibly - George Robert Montague Pakenham – but long papers index at TNA shown him with the 2nd Battalion Connaught Rangers.

Whitworth?

Charles Acland Keele. KiA 12/07/1916 8th Battalion.

Possibly Andrew Basil Acheson. Long papers indexed as Connaught Rangers, MiC as Machine Gun Corps.

Possibly Robert Watt Train. Long papers indexed as General List, MiC as Capatin R.W. Train, Rifle Brigade.

the Hon. Cecil Edward Agar-Robartes

W.A. Crebbin -  Long papers indexed as William Arthur Crebbin, Connaught Rangers. MiC as ex Private 1167 Middlesex Regiment, Private 4256 Royal Fusiliers, Second Lieutenant & Captain Rifle Brigade.Killed in Action 04/04/1918 with the 8th Battalion.

C.H. Wenham – Long papers indexed as Charles Hugh Wenham, Rifle Brigade.

S.F. Purdon – Long papers indexed as Samuel Francis Purdon, Connaught Rangers. MiC and MiD cards as S.F. Purdon.

C.H. Pitchford – No obvious long papers or MiC.

De Chair? Could this be U.de B Charles from the Army List?

Newton?

[seated]

Quartermaster Alfred John Payne

Major Marmaduke Ibbetson Wyvill

Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Elphinstone Bethune Patton-Bethune or D.E.B. Patton-Bethune.

Captain W.W. M. Gott.

Captain James Lowder (Adjutant) – Long papers for James Lowder, Rifle Brigade.

Captain Edward Paulet Powles – long papers in that name.

[cross-legged on ground]

E.C.A. Baker, Long papers and MiC for an for an Edward Cecil Arnold Baker.First landed France 24th September 1915.

P. Liesching, possibly the Long papers in the name of Percival Liesching, Tank Corps. MiC for Lieutenant & Captain P. Liesching, Tank Corps, formerly Private 1428 1st Bn Honourable Artillery Company.

F.R. Dakeyne, possibly Long papers in the name of Frank Rooper Dakeyne, Royal Horse Guards. MiC for F.R Dakeyne has him with the Household Battalion and then the Royal Horse Guards. First landed in Western Europe 8th November 1916.

J.A. Grantham. Not sure if it relates but the National Archive have indexed Long papers of a John Alfred Grantham and Guterbock, Royal Field Artillery. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1121584

Hope that helps,
Peter

Edited 11 April , 2022 by PRC
Formatting

[stiletto_33853]

Peter,

Be very very careful re. Connaught Rangers v. Rifle Brigade, There are many officers listed as Connaught Rangers that were Rifle Brigade officers from day one. I sent a long list to the TNA sometime ago, there response "We are not Regimental experts"

i.e. Samuel Francis Purden, commissioned  Rifle Brigade, L.G. 31/12/14 to 14th RB, joined 8th RB in the field 23/7/15. I have all his  officers course notes.

Daykeyne was indeed R.H.G. but as an older officer he was sent to 14th RB  on 22/3/15, going overseas at a later date as you have noted. Ceylon Planter returning to Ceylon after the war, a member of the Comrades of the Great War (Ceylon Branch)

 

By the way, Charles Acland Keele was killed in action with the 12th RB not the 8th

 

Andy

Edited 12 April , 2022 by stiletto_33853

[Hugh2]

My thanks to you both.  Baker was later with my grandfather in the trenches: I'm reasonably sure of him.