Frederick Henry Golding, 21 LR (654621) and 10 SWB (263081)

[MikeDeadman]

After WW1 Fred Golding would marry Emily Deadman. He enlisted in Middlesex on 24/2/17.  He served 1 year 72 days including 239 days in France. His medal roll (VM, BWM, SM) have his service as

654621 London Regiment

IBD

263081 MON R Att 10/SWB

263081 MON R Att 10/SWB

263081 MON R Att 15/Coy RE

263081 MON R Att 15/Coy RE

263081 MON R Att 10/SWB

His discharge certificate lists 21st (R) London Regiment and 1st Battn Monm Reg (SWB). He was Discharged as medically unfit (epilepsy) on 6/5/18

I'm not sure of his dates into and from IBD or his attachments to 15 RE.  He was wounded prior to discharge but I have no record of the date of his wounding, or when and to where he was repatriated. 

Grateful for any assistance. Have war diaries but need to be sure I've got the right LR and MON R editions

[George Rayner]

In his Medal Roll I think it says 151 Coy/RE

George

[George Rayner]

Agreed

[MikeDeadman]

53 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

   Thanks George.  Can only fly with the flight plan provided!   It also looks like 2nd London, so Surrey records will not help

As it is, 151 RE has a war diary as well:

Yes, my mistake in transcribing. 151 RE  it is

[MikeDeadman]

1 hour ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

   Thanks George.  Can only fly with the flight plan provided!   It also looks like 2nd London, so Surrey records will not help

As it is, 151 RE has a war diary as well:

His discharge certificate definitely indicates 21 london

[Allan1892]

5 hours ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

His MIC notes that he has a Silver War Badge, whose records are on Ancestry and this may add a detail or two.

SWB image attached, courtesy of Ancestry

[MikeDeadman]

10 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

Good- the matter may be settled by the various Surrey records on FMP.   

I don't have FMP but will take a month's subscription to do a "blitz" on all the family members. Does FMP have more or similar info to Ancestry? 

Would either give me the date of wounding, thence the location? 

[Gunner 87]

FMP / IWM have this photograph of Frederick and information that he was treated at Wharncliffe Hospital, Sheffield which it states was the mentally ill. I have attached the thumbnail as the enlarge photo was very blurred. 

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/1369968

 

Edited 9 April , 2022 by Gunner 87

[George Rayner]

Does your FH Golding have a birth date of 11.6.1897?

George

[MikeDeadman]

49 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

Does your FH Golding have a birth date of 11.6.1897?

George

Yes, registered Brenchly

[MikeDeadman]

1 hour ago, Gunner 87 said:

FMP / IWM have this photograph of Frederick and information that he was treated at Wharncliffe Hospital, Sheffield which it states was the mentally ill. I have attached the thumbnail as the enlarge photo was very blurred. 

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/1369968

 

Yes, my cousin, his grand daughter posted that

[Allan1892]

2 hours ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

1)   Medical records for British Army on FMP

Nothing coming up with a search on his name or service numbers

[MikeDeadman]

42 minutes ago, Allan1892 said:

Nothing coming up with a search on his name or service numbers

Thanks Alan, his discharge mentions epilepsy which would fit with his treatment in Sheffield and his final day's at Stone House, near Gravesend, which was a hospital for mental illness. If I trawl through the RE diaries will I be likely to pin down his attachment as arrival from Monmouth or SWB? 

M

[George Rayner]

Thanks for birth place…could you share the date please?

George

[MikeDeadman]

22 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

Thanks for birth place…could you share the date please?

George

11.6.97

Sorry George, thought I'd sent it

Mike

[MikeDeadman]

6 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

As Stone House was a City of London hospital, LMA has a fair few records.  The group description for "patient records" says:

PATIENT RECORDS

Date of Creation:

1866 - 1997

Reference Code:

CLA/001/B

From Collection:

CITY OF LONDON MENTAL HOSPITAL {LATER STONE HOUSE HOSPITAL}

Scope and Content:

Includes registers, indexes and patient case papers regarding admission, discharge, death, burial, post-mortems, mechanical restraint and seclusion, medical registers and private and rate-aided civil registers.

Classification:HOSPITALS

Site Location:London Metropolitan Archives

    Normally, there would be an admissions register- which would probably give most of the details you could reasonably want.  It.s not a great struggle if you are down Gravesend Way to get to LMA -  Angel tube or Farringdon

Thanks Alan. I'm in Wales these  days but Fred's grandaughter is in Gravesend and could make the trip up

[MikeDeadman]

I'm a bit confused about who Fred Golding served with after enlisting on 24 February 1917. His number is 654621 but he is variously given as 2nd or 21st London Regiment on FWR or on his papers of discharge. Is it 2nd R, or 21st (Surrey Rifles) or is it 2/21 (East Surrey)? 

[Gunner 87]

On 10/04/2022 at 07:07, MikeDeadman said:

I'm a bit confused about who Fred Golding served with after enlisting on 24 February 1917. His number is 654621 but he is variously given as 2nd or 21st London Regiment on FWR or on his papers of discharge. Is it 2nd R, or 21st (Surrey Rifles) or is it 2/21 (East Surrey)? 

On Frederick's discharge papers it lists 21st (Reserve), London Regiment. However on the Medal Index Card (MIC) and Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and British War Medal it lists 2nd Battalion London Regiment. Looking at the service numbers on the Medal Roll the other soldiers are from the 21st (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (First Surrey Rifles) so the MIC and MR are probably marked up incorrectly. I would say that Frederick first served in the 21st London Regiment. 

[Gunner 87]

5 minutes ago, ALAN MCMAHON said:

   Suggests he should be on the Surrey Enlistment records on FMP

Hi Alan. Just checked... he's not. 

Edited 19 April , 2022 by Gunner 87