The 1920/21 Lists of Soldiers' records

[clive_hughes]

Hello folks,

I'm realising that I don't know enough about the indexes to Soldiers' papers still held by the MoD (and currently in the course of being transferred to the National Archives).  These cover men with birthdates before 1901 - or so I believe? 

I have an Anglesey man who enlisted in late Aug./early Sept. 1914 on a 6-year Special Reserve contract, and who served the full period.  His MIC shows his SR number, followed by a 6-figure TF number after 1917, and that's all.  I know he ended up serving in Egypt post-war, from where he was sent home for final discharge in about summer 1920.  

The Indexes to the Soldiers' papers above don't seem to show anyone much with the 1920 seven-figure Army numbers, so firstly do the papers cover men who were still in the Army at the changeover of numbers point sometime in 1920?  If they were, it's possible my man had a new 7-digit number within his regimental block, even if not recorded on his MIC.  His regiment's registers for men with the new numbers do survive.  

I have seen the records described as 1921 papers, by which time he had left the Army (and so his file may likely have been burnt in 1940).  Can someone please enlighten me as to the scope of these records?

Clive

 

[TEW]

I think discharge in the Summer of 1920 means he won't have a 7 digit Army number.

Just checked my MOD list which has 167,252 seven digit men.

TEW

[Keith_history_buff]

  

1 hour ago, clive_hughes said:

Hello folks,

I have seen the records described as 1921 papers, by which time he had left the Army (and so his file may likely have been burnt in 1940).  Can someone please enlighten me as to the scope of these records?

Clive

 

 

It does state on the gov.uk website:

Service records date from:
January 1921 for British Army soldiers if their service ended after January 1921

[TEW]

I did see a WO363 file where the man was discharged something like 5th Jan 1921. Knowing he was about to be discharged they never bothered assigning a 7 digit number.

TEW

[David Porter]

3 hours ago, clive_hughes said:

I have an Anglesey man who enlisted in late Aug./early Sept. 1914 on a 6-year Special Reserve contract, and who served the full period.  His MIC shows his SR number, followed by a 6-figure TF number after 1917, and that's all.

Could he be RGA SR by any chance? The initial SR number for these men, who were ex soldiers, was changed later by the addition of 275000 giving them a six digit number.

Not all Army Numbers were seven digits, they started at 1.

 

The new Royal Field Artillery Territorial Army that was recruited in 1920 began with the number 721001, but Regulars were renumbered from 1000001.

[clive_hughes]

Folks,

The man in question had ended his service before January 1921, so he won't have a new/7-digit Army number (he was an infantryman).  Going by what you say, it's likeliest that his papers were destroyed in the 1940 Blitz.  

Thank you all

Clive

[David Porter]

But was your man RGA and renumbered with the addition of 275000. This needs to be clarified as you assumed he was TF in 1917 when he may not have been.

[MaureenE]

On 25/03/2022 at 19:30, clive_hughes said:

Hello folks,

I'm realising that I don't know enough about the indexes to Soldiers' papers still held by the MoD (and currently in the course of being transferred to the National Archives).  These cover men with birthdates before 1901 - or so I believe?

See https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/news/mod-records-project/ which says

"The records included in this collection cover personnel in all three services, Royal Navy, Army and Royal Air Force, where the individual has a date of birth prior to or up to 1939"  "To protect the information in these records, closure will apply until 115 years past the date of birth of the individual". 

Documentation generally indicates that the MOD files  are for officers whose service ended after April 1922 and soldiers whose service ended after January 1921. (Note, however some documentation has been seen which gives the holding from April 1922, and from January 1921, respectively.)

Maureen

[clive_hughes]

Hi again,

David, he was in the RWF (SR), so an infantryman, and his medal index card reflects this regiment from July 1915 at least up to the Armistice.  He did (1917 or after) acquire a 6-digit TF number which corresponds with that issued to the 23rd Battalion RWF (TF), a home service unit, though the Absent Voters Lists 1918 have him with the 1/4th RWF (TF) at war's end and indeed right through to May 1920 (he had left the Army by the October 1920 AVL).   

His latter service is a bit of a puzzle, since his unit (presumably 1/4th RWF) was in Belgium about the Armistice, then moved into France.  However, his 6-year contact meant that instead of demobilization/disembodiment he was detached and sent out to Egypt, possibly to 10th (Irish) Division as his GOC there was named as Maj.-Gen. Gorringe.  But no Welsh units in that outfit, and no surviving  paperwork to show who he might have been attached to.   

Maureen, thanks - as he'd been released before Jan. 1921 it seems the surviving papers won't include his.

Clive

[David Porter]

Apologies Clive, I misread your previous post. Thank you for the clarification, it does look like his post war attachment will remain a mystery.