2nd Bn. Royal Sussex Regt. Nominal Roll of NCO's & OR's 1914-18

[mandy hall]

I will have a look at my photos this week, and draw up a list of names to compare.

Mandy

[JMB1943]

21 hours ago, charlie962 said:

What do you make of the 60 odd that you have excluded? Possibly held back at the IBD to improve their fitness and warfare skills; I have noted previously that the next reinforcement draft on Feb. 7th was of 46 men.

Any pattern? Nothing is apparent.

Do they have alternative defined dates for joining Bn? Good question, but the Ledger gives only joined on 18-1-15 or no date at all. 

Could there be some men with an earlier embarkation date who went into your 74? Theoretically, yes, as per the 46-man possible situation described above.

If a man died with 2ndBn any time after landing, shouldn't he be a possible even if we cannot pin his joining date down for certain?No, because there were many reinforcement drafts both before and after that of Jan. 18th. If you mean one of the 124, then yes a “possible” but I have to focus on the “definites.”

Where have Booth and  Brooks, that I mentioned earlier, ended up? As you noted earlier, 10339 BOOTH was missing/KiA with 2nd Bn, on May 5, 1915 while Brooks was also KiA with 2nd Bn on the same day.

Charlie

Charlie,

Thanks for your interest and probing questions.

Regards,

JMB

Edit: change Brooks to BOOTH

Edited 10 April , 2022 by JMB1943
Correction

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, JMB1943 said:

Where have Booth and  Brooks, that I mentioned earlier, ended up? As you noted earlier, 10339 Brooks was missing/KiA with 2nd Bn, on May 5, 1915 while Brooks was also KiA with 2nd Bn on the same day.

What I meant was are they in or out of your 74?

My questions are indeed meant to be helpful!! But forgive me if they are sometimes daft.

Charlie

[JMB1943]

Charlie,

Sorry that I misunderstood!!

There is no evidence that either of these men was with 2nd Bn RSR before Feb. 7th, so they will have to remain as only possibles.

Regards,

JMB

PS You know what they say, "There are NO daft questions, but sometimes daft answers!"

[Muerrisch]

Posted in fond memory of a historian of giant forensic skills: architect, mathematician, gentleman and ex Queen's Gurkha Engineers officer, a great friend to many on this Forum.

 

Case Study: The Royal Sussex Regiment.

The Royal Sussex Regiment is one of only eight line infantry regiments that were ordered to leave its India-based battalion in situ for the duration of the war. Rather fortunately the ledger of reinforcements has been preserved. Not only are we able to accurately reconstruct the flow of reserves, we also know that they would all be heading to the 2^nd Bn Royal Sussex Regiment in France and Belgium. The 3^rd (Reserve) Bn Royal Sussex Regiment records show that on 9^th August 1914 after mobilisation the unit had 304 Special reservists and 580 ‘Regulars’ (Army Reservists and serving Regular Army men) making a total of 884 fully trained and effective Other Ranks. In addition it had 247 men under training. [i]

Within a month the Reserves should have exactly halved as 442 Reinforcements were sent to France. The returns show 428 men on the books suggesting another 14 men had become ineffective. By 28^th Nov 1914 the 7^th Reinforcement draft departed bringing the number of Reinforcements sent by the 3rd (Reserve) Bn Royal Sussex Regiment to 976 men, some 92 more men than the original pool of Reserves post-mobilisation only seventeen weeks earlier. Exactly six months into the campaign, the regiment had sent out 616 more (trained) men than it started with. If we assume every one of the 247 men in training in August had become ready and were included in the later drafts, it still means that at least 369 extra men trained men had been obtained from another source. [ii]

There are TWO possible explanations. One source could be the ex-servicemen who re-enlisted under AO 295 into the Special Reserve. Given their age (30-42, later extended to 45) many would have been utilized in the New Armies. A larger source of manpower was the Kitchener Recruits. Once the first Service battalions had been formed there were still large surpluses of untrained men. Again the war diaries shed some light on the matter. The 2^nd Bn Royal Sussex Regt on 13^th January 1915:

“A draft of 210 men arrived with Lt Gramshawe. These went straight into the trenches when they arrived from Annequin where they had billeted the night before. All Kitchener’s August recruits. They seemed to be a good lot”[iii]

We therefore know at least 210 of the 369 extra men were Kitchener recruits. The wording of the diary is open to interpretation. Were these the first Kitchener recruits to arrive or were they simply the first whole draft? Could smaller numbers of Kitchener men have made up some of the 159 other extra men that the Royal Sussex Regiment? ???????????? The CWGC data provides some tiny clues: men with an S prefix to their Army Numbers appear in small numbers starting 30^th October 1914 and men with GS prefix appear on 23^rd December 1914 which shows that some men Kitchener men arrived before the end of 1914.

 

Martin Gillott. September 2014

 

 

 

 

---

[i]  3^rd (Reserve) Bn Royal Sussex Regt ledger 1914-1918 (West Sussex Records Office)

[ii]  Ibid

[iii]   WO 95/1269/1: 2^nd Bn Royal Sussex Regt war diary 13^th Jan 1915

[iv]   3^rd (Reserve) Bn Royal Sussex Regt ledger 1914-1918 (West Sussex Records Office)

[v]   WO 95 – various diaries.

[mandy hall]

Thanks for posting this Muerrisch, I did mention Martin in my first post on this thread.  As you say, sadly missed.

Mandy

[JMB1943]

Muerrisch,

I echo your sentiments regarding the late M.G.

Thank you for re-posting his older post; I would have liked to be able to run the 74 vs 124 puzzle past him.

Regards,

JMB

[JMB1943]

What am I to make of the MIC for this soldier?

He is listed as #1498 in the Ledger, but #498 on the MIC and later #1498.

Is there a possible second stint with the RE.'s?

Regards,

JMB

Courtesy of : The National Archives

 

[charlie962]

Amos Robert Leppard born 1882 East Grinstead, married 1917 Pauline G Lawes, died 1953.

He started RSussex. landed France 11/1/15, Has a hospital admission 4th Stationary Hospital  1st Feb 1915 tonsillitis whilst 2nd Bn RSR. He was trfd to RDC (presumably medical downgrade due to sickness or wounds) in Nov 1917, I think and almost immediately in Nov 1917 trfd then to RE Inland Water Transport.  First RE number 318448  then renumbered WR315515. 

The medal roll shows the sequence.

"Ancestry.co.uk - UK, World War I Service Medal and Award Rolls, 1914-1920" https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_625537_9527-00273?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=49a04827ea9e9d7472759f91eb90e6a3&pId=5260621 

Appears in 34 trees in Ancestry.

"Amos Robert Leppard - Ancestry.com" https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/categories/42/?name=Amos+robert_Leppard&birth=1883&birth_x=1-0-0&count=50&defaultFacets=PRIMARY_YEAR.PRIMARY_NPLACE&name_x=i_1&types=rt

Edited 18 April , 2022 by charlie962

[JMB1943]

Charlie,

Thanks for that very informative answer.

May I ask what is the source of the 4th Stationary Hospital/ tonsillitis admission?

Regards,

JMB

[mandy hall]

Hi John

I have sent you a couple of emails, this evening.  One of them answers your above query.

Mandy