Angus Cameron - typing error with date?

[BarbaraG]

Would I be correct in thinking that the enlistment date for SWB 200176 Cameron Angus is a typing error?

No reference for 1914/1915 Star on MIC.

Appreciate any advice.

[charlie962]

Why do you think it is an error. Doesn't it suggest he was a prewar territorial, renumbered 1917.

He has a hospital admission record Oct 1916 that shows 3 years service.

"British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers' Medical Records Image | findmypast.co.uk" https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=S2%2FGBM%2FMH106%2FMH106-1458%2F0019&parentid=GBM%2FMH106%2FP2%2F438337 

First went overseas c Feb 1916.

Edited 8 March , 2022 by charlie962

[charlie962]

1578 Urquhart attested.  4th Seaforths 1/11/13

1580 Cameron...4th Seaforths.....

1582 McKenzie enlisted 4th Seaforths  c17/11/13.

1586 Mitchell enlisted 4th Seaforths 1/11/13

Edited 8 March , 2022 by charlie962

[BarbaraG]

Many thanks Charlie.

Wondered about date as I was unable to find 1914/1915 references. Don't think Angus went to France until 1916 so he wouldn't have qualified.

 

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, BarbaraG said:

Don't think Angus went to France until 1916 so he wouldn't have qualified.

 

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

First went overseas c Feb 1916.

per the hospital admissions Oct/1916, been in Field Force 8 months.

Charlie

[BarbaraG]

Thank you for your help.

[EwenHardie]

Barbara/Charlie

Angus Cameron was my grandfather so have some knowledge of his WW1 service.

Born 1890

Nov 1913 He enlisted in the 4th Seaforth's along with many of the villagers of Poolewe in Wester Ross.

Jun 1914 He attended the battalion summer camp in Kingussie. (postcard sent to his mother)

Aug 1914 He ended up in Bedford with the 4th Seaforth's. (picture of him as L/Cpl outside Bedford Grammar School)

Nov 1914 Here things get a little confusing as he is listed as leaving for France with the 4th Seaforth's in the Ross-shire Roll of Honour. However this does not seem to be the case as he ends up in the newly formed 2/4th Seaforth's training troops. This might be down to the large outbreak of measles that occurred at the time in Bedford.

Apr 1915 A family postcard mentions him being in Ft George where the 2/4th Seaforth's had recently returned.

Jun 1915 Sir John Fowler the 1/4 Seaforth battalion adjutant was killed in France and his body was repatriated to the family estate near Ullapool. Angus Cameron is listed as being the Sgt in charge of the firing party and he is visible in numerous pictures of the event.

Jul 1915 The 2/4th Seaforth's leave Ft George and march to camp in Blair Atholl. A picture of the Sgt's mess shows Angus Cameron there

Dec 1915 He is pictured in Pitlochry where the battalion had moved to earlier in October to billets which were much more comfortable.

Mar 1916 The battalion entrain for Norwich after a brief stay in Stirling. He is pictured outside a distinctly redbrick terraced house as found in the area they were billeted.

Jul-Aug 1916 Haladne's 4th Seaforth history mentions that "26 of the smartest sergeants and 23 other non-commissioned officers gave up their stripes to go to France"

I believe that Angus Cameron was in this large draft of men as my mother always said he resigned his stripes to go and fight in France.

Aug 1916 The 11th Entrenching battalion in France (Hersin-Coupigny) mentions the arrival of a draft of 290 2/4th Seaforth's.

Oct 1916 Cpl Angus Cameron gets a brief mention in the 4th Stationary Hospital admissions as suffering from Trench Fever. The admittance record gives an approximate in theatre date of Feb 1916, but I believe this to be incorrect as it doesn't tie in with the 'resignation of stripes' story along with him being pictured outside a house in Norwich. Also a platoon notebook of his survives and an entries for 24th March and 19th June 1916 lists the recruits he is still training recruits. 

Oct 1916 The 11th Entrenching Battalion have very detailed battalion records and they say that 263 2/4th Seaforth's leave to join the 7th Seaforth's. Angus Cameron leaves the 4th Stationary Hospital 5 days later.

Dec 1916 The 11th Entrenching Battalion diary says that 5 other ranks returned to 1/4th Seaforth's. With a fairly high level of certainty Angus Cameron was within this 5 as his medal card and SWB records have him as a 1/4th Seaforth.

Apr-May 1917 He most likely took part in the battles at Vimy Ridge and the 2nd Battle of the Scarpe (Chemical Works)

Jul 1917 He is listed as a casualty in the newspapers

Sep 1917 He is discharged as a private due to 'sickness'. Family lore has it that he had to rest for 1 year. Recently the Pension Records show he was suffering from VDH (Valvular Disease of the Heart) brought on by active service. My mother always said he strained his heart in France and this record confirms this, however for someone with a 'dodgy' ticker he worked on the family croft and as a gamekeeper and lived to 89 and his heart never caused any issue over these hard years.

WW2 He is a CSM in the local village Homeguard. 

He died in 1979

I have found researching his WW1 service to be a very interesting experience, so much family lore turned out to be very wrong. As we have seen recently "recollections may vary" and this was most definitely the case, asking relatives of his injuries. I was informed, bullet on the heart, gassed, heel blown off etc, only my mother had it right which has been recently confirmed to be correct. How I wish now I could have asked some questions back in the 1970's, not sure he would have answered me and what knowledge would I have had at such a young age.

Barbara, might I ask of your interest?

Hopefully of some interest to you both.

Cheers

Ewen

 

 

[charlie962]

58 minutes ago, EwenHardie said:

Oct 1916 Cpl Angus Cameron gets a brief mention in the 4th Stationary Hospital admissions as suffering from Trench Fever. The admittance record gives an approximate in theatre date of Feb 1916, but I believe this to be incorrect as it doesn't tie in with the 'resignation of stripes' story along with him being pictured outside a house in Norwich. Also a platoon notebook of his survives and an entries for 24th March and 19th June 1916 lists the recruits he is still training recruits

Interesting!

[EwenHardie]

Hi Charlie

I see you posted some enlistment dates, I was wondering what website or source you use to find these dates? I have only seen them pop up via the Silver War Badge records.

Any help appreciated

Cheers

Ewen

[charlie962]

On 14/04/2024 at 15:54, EwenHardie said:

Hi Charlie

I see you posted some enlistment dates, I was wondering what website or source you use to find these dates? I have only seen them pop up via the Silver War Badge records.

Any help appreciated

Cheers

Ewen

Ewen, these dates came from looking for surviving service records of men with close service numbers. Takes a bit of time,  depending on which dataset you use. I prefer Findmypast to Ancestry. Much more reliable than using SWB roll because the latter does not give any clues on subsequent switches of regiment. A man who was discharged with the xyz regiment might have attested with the abc regiment originally.

Often referred to on the forum as a 'near numbers' exercise, the interpretation needs to be made with care due to repeated sequences of numbers even in the same regiment, which was only stopped when the Army numbers were issued in 1919 ish. Have a look at the LongLongTrail about service numbers.

Charlie

[EwenHardie]

Charlie

Many thanks for your detailed explanation of the numbers.

Ewen