How do I confirm the identity of my Great-Great grandfather?

[Ivor Anderson]

Daniel? Died in training? buried Cork: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/900139/daniel-haydon/

 

Edited 4 March , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[ImAnEggplant]

6 hours ago, charlie962 said:

Yes the three attestations are in the same service file.

You will be best to list in date order all the events that appear in the file and then  it will make more sense. You can ask us the techy questions that will arise and Ivor has also given you some starter links to personal info.

.charlie

Where on Ancestry did you find that? I haven’t been able to find it. I’ve only found a pension record or is that it?

[museumtom]

I have seen remarkable success on this forum when the phrase 'thank you' is used.

[FROGSMILE]

16 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Daniel? Died in training? buried Cork: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/900139/daniel-haydon/

 

Unusual to be a drummer if a relatively new enlistee.  It suggests he might already have been a special reservist with previous, militia type service.  That was quite common in Ireland, partly because it was the only one of the home nations without Territorial Force (formerly Volunteer Force) battalions, and partly because as an agrarian economy the annual cash payment helped keep wolves from the door during the winter months and fallow periods.  Knowing his enlistment details might confirm the circumstances, if they have survived.

Edited 5 March , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Ivor Anderson]

Civil death certificate for Daniel - irishgenealogy.ie

[kenf48]

 

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Unusual to be a drummer if a relatively new enlistee.

I don't think he died in Training.  SDGW shows died in Gallipoli  (clearly an admin error) but he has the 14 -15 Star for service in Gallipol entered theatre 25. 4 1915 i.e. with the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Paul Nixon's site gives this number as issued some time in 1907 https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/royal-dublin-fusiliers-1st-2nd.html

He was probably evacuated  from the  Dardanelle and died at home.

The 14-15 Star, incidentally was returned,  correction it appears the name was spelt incorrectly and it was reissued.

Image courtesy of Ancestry

[ss002d6252]

2 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

I don't think he died in Training.  SDGW shows died in Gallipoli  (clearly an admin error) but he has the 14 -15 Star entered theatre 25. 4 1915 i.e. with the 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

Paul Nixon's site gives this number as issued some time in 1907 https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/royal-dublin-fusiliers-1st-2nd.html

He was probably evacuated  from the  Dardanelle and died at home.

The 14-15 Star, incidentally was returned, undelivered.

 

Died in hospital in Cork

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/54475:60506?_phsrc=Ezi94&_phstart=successSource&ml_rpos=27&queryId=11d0440a3b0ddff7e8f6e2b5db5a9d0e

Craig

[kenf48]

 

On 05/03/2022 at 13:35, ss002d6252 said:

Died in hospital in Cork

As previously noted SDGW is clearly an clerical error.  I suspect his record was not updated and when compiling SDGW they simply showed his last posting. It is unusual. The first time I've seen such a cardinal error on SDGW.

 

The National Roll of Ireland also has him dying in Gallipoli.The entry is rather bizarre 1. it shows him as a driver (the 14-15 Roll and CWGC clearly state Dmr/Drmr not Dvr) and 2. includes a letter which makes very little sense as regards his service

 

Images from FMP

[FROGSMILE]

What an extraordinary mix up of fact and erroneous recording! 

With a probable enlistment in 1907 according to his regimental number is there anything else to point to a status as a special reservist?  He seems to have been one of those who brought 1st RDF up to war establishment unless he was already serving on a regular engagement in 1914.  Can @museumtomadd anything to the mix regarding Daniel?

Edited 5 March , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[ss002d6252]

MoP records have him as dying of disease.


https://www.fold3.com/image/668864203?terms=daniel,9798


Craig

[kenf48]

15 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

With a probable enlistment in 1907 according to his regimental number is there anything else to point to a status as a special reservist?

I've not explored the SR aspect but as you observed it seems unlikely he was a wartime enlistment as a drummer. 

The 3rd Battalion is usually a give away but in this case he would have been on the Depot strength whilst in hospital. I'l have another look later after hopefully answering another query

 

[ss002d6252]

In 1911 he was on active service in India so it appears he was a serving regular. The war gratuity would support this.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Ezi101&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=2352&gsfn=daniel&gsln=hayden&cp=4&msrpn__ftp=military&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=9&h=36014858&recoff=&ml_rpos=10&queryId=75b6c4386e3e20afd7fc530f80b824d1

Craig

[Ivor Anderson]

The Patrick Haydon (brother d. May 1915?) mentioned in the newspaper report attached Daniel's SDGW entry as posted above?

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/446522/patrick-hayden/

 

[FROGSMILE]

36 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

I've not explored the SR aspect but as you observed it seems unlikely he was a wartime enlistment as a drummer. 

The 3rd Battalion is usually a give away but in this case he would have been on the Depot strength whilst in hospital. I'l have another look later after hopefully answering another query

 

Yes I was thinking the same thing.  The 3rd Bn aspect is masked by the depot strength protocol as a hospital patient.  

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Ivor Anderson said:

The Patrick Haydon (brother d. May 1915?) mentioned in the newspaper report attached Daniel's SDGW entry as posted above?

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/446522/patrick-hayden/

Yes it seems like at least three brothers all serving in the British Army.  Not at all uncommon in some Irish families at the time.

[museumtom]

No problem Frogsmile. I was waiting to see if the OP would say thank you for your help first.

The answers ye seek are here.

https://irelandsgreatwardead.ie/the-archive/

Search for Haydon and also look in the Leighlinn War Memorial under Tinryland.

The dod is incorrect though and you can see here...

[Keith_history_buff]

Some fantastic sleuthing, but a sense of entitlement on the part of the OP suggested by a lack of appreciation of the hard work.

It would have cost a pretty penny to have got professional researchers to have done this.

[charlie962]

36 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

professional

gifted amateurs knock spots off professionals.

[Ivor Anderson]

Professionals do it for money...amateurs do it for the love of it!  https://www.etymonline.com/word/amateur

Edited 5 March , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, museumtom said:

No problem Frogsmile. I was waiting to see if the OP would say thank you for your help first.

The answers ye seek are here.

https://irelandsgreatwardead.ie/the-archive/

Search for Haydon and also look in the Leighlinn War Memorial under Tinryland.

The dod is incorrect though and you can see here...

Thanks Tom, much appreciated and a good testament to the highly admirable work that you’ve done to remember brave Irish soldiers in fine regiments that live on in history.  I understand what you mean about the poor manners, but try not to let it detract from the sterling work done by the fine and generous researchers that collaborate so well here.

Edited 5 March , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[museumtom]

Thank you kindly Frogsmile, making me blush on a frosty morning!. Onwards and upwards.

Kindest regards.

Tom.

[CarlowDan89]

Hello. That is my Great Grandfather on my mother's side of my family. My grandmother was a Hayden from Carlow. Our family has that picture.

[Michelle Young]

@ImAnEggplant hasn’t visited since 5/3/2022. My tag might alert them to your post. 

[ImAnEggplant]

I’m sorry that I haven’t said thank you to all who helped me on this. To be honest I was kind of embarrassed to say something then because it might of give off more of a bad vibe if I said thank you after you all mentioned it and I just didn’t know what to say. I will make sure, though, in the future that I won’t make the same mistake. 

8 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

@ImAnEggplant hasn’t visited since 5/3/2022. My tag might alert them to your post. 

Yes it did

[ImAnEggplant]

59 minutes ago, CarlowDan89 said:

Hello. That is my Great Grandfather on my mother's side of my family. My grandmother was a Hayden from Carlow. Our family has that picture.

Really? I would very much like to talk to you more if you have the time