Military Medal

[Old Bid]

Hi, How long does it take for an award for the MM to appear in London Gazette?

I was trying to find out why a soldier was awarded one and with no citation wondered if it would be mentioned in war diaries, but didn’t know how far back I should look.

Soldier in question is 47269 George Frederick Hobden 2/Lancs Fusiliers who appears in Jan 1918 Gazette as being awarded a MM.

Regards

[Rockford]

Hello,

I've recently been looking at the war diaries of the Royal Scots.   For their action with the 13th Battalion's on 21st/22nd August 1917, 10 NCOs and men are noted in the war diary on 24th August as having been awarded the MM.  I haven't looked for the Gazette entry for all of them, but at least three appeared in the LG in mid-October 1917.

However, I remember someone on the forum replying to a question I had about an MC that there was sometimes an award for the soldier's actions over a period of time, rather than for a 'one-off' or specific activity, and these sometimes appeared in the Gazette as part of the New Year announcements.  Someone with more knowledge than me will be able to confirm whether this could happen with the MM.

Edit:  Just checked the diary for a DCM awarded for the same action and recorded in the WD on 30th August 1917.  This was also gazetted in October 1917, on 22nd.

Best wishes

Brian

Edited 1 March , 2022 by Rockford
Additional Information

[Coldstreamer]

Rule of thumb is 3 months but longer as the war went on 

Try local newspapers 

[PRC]

5 hours ago, Old Bid said:

Soldier in question is 47269 George Frederick Hobden 2/Lancs Fusiliers who appears in Jan 1918 Gazette as being awarded a MM.

More specifically its on page 1388 of the Supplement to the London Gazette dated 28th January 1918. Whole thing can be seen here https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30498/supplement/1

He on a long list of MM awards that start on page 1378 with nothing to indicate they are for anything other than bravery in the field.

The associated card in the TNA catalogue gives the schedule number as 134066. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6173968

Forum member @Ivor Anderson may be able to kindly assist with his expertise as to the period that schedule may relate to

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Ivor Anderson]

The 28 Jan 1918 LG is mainly MMs for Passchendaele in October 1917: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30498/supplement/1388

The 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers were in several key battles during 3rd Ypres: 

https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=6508

Check the war diary from Oct-Dec 1917 for a mention of MMs: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14053100

MM card - National Archives' reference WO 372/23/120667:

Edited 1 March , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

I think it is very likely that his MM was for Poelcappelle on the 9th October 1917 - no mention of MMs in the battalion WD.

Edited 2 March , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[Old Bid]

Many thanks for the replies.

In the Gazette it states Clapton Park, and various other places for other soldiers. What exactly do these places relate to?

Regards

[Ivor Anderson]

'Clapton Park' is where he was from when he enlisted. It's an area in North London (71 Mandeville St., Clapton Park in 1911?):

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/search/clapton+park/@51.5594186,-0.0612997,4663m/data=!3m1!1e3

Perhaps b. 16 July 1888? (from baptism entry - Ancestry): https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/4183075:1558

This may be him in 1911 (Ancestry Image):

 

Edited 2 March , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[FlersChampagne]

The War Diary for the 2nd Bn Lanc Fus is woeful. However Hobden's award is for the 9th or 10th Oct 1917. I have details on others in the block to the LFs in the L/Gaz of 28.1.18. that confirm this.

Regards

Chris 

As an aside - the length of time it took to get an MM in the Gazette varies enormously from a few weeks to over 5 years for 1914 POWs who's MMs didn't appear until 1920.

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks for the action confirmation Chris. I always refer to the gazette data in your MM Cards volume.

[Old Bid]

This is all great info. Thanks.

I have just found a reference to a

G Hobden 1218 Lancs Fusiliers

Born 1888 Middlesex  

Attested 1906

could this be the same man?

Also on pension records it states

another service number for him

242924... but why is this not on his MIC? 

 

Regards

[Ivor Anderson]

You need to get the 2 pension records on Fold3 to see if there is any confirmed connection:

Chelsea Pensioner pension - Fold3 (1218) enlisted 1906 aged 18?? https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61068&h=686854&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=1558

MIC 47269 only: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/4399219:1262?tid=&pid=&queryId=e20e325d25aad3b7318982c32790a56e&_phsrc=AHE18789&_phstart=successSource

WW1 medal roll (47269): https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41629_625537_9583-00158?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&pId=2087495

Pension card on Fold3 with second 6 digit no. 242924 https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=61588&h=158015787&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=1558

[ss002d6252]

The MoP are happy he had the two numbers in WW1.

https://www.fold3.com/image/701871785?xid=1022

Quote

242924... but why is this not on his MIC? 

For medal purposes, they were only interested in numbers that were relevant. If, for example, he only served under #242924 on home service it would not be needed for medal purposes.

Craig