Herbert Goldsby

[Herbert]

I recently learned in 2021 that my grandfather was Sergeant Herbert Roye Goldsby MM 12854,  he was the only soldier that died on 27th July 1916. Is there any further information available as to how he won the medal.

 

[GraemeClarke]

Hi

He is on here with the web master surmising he gained the award at Ovillers.

https://ww1.wales/carmarthenshire-memorials/llanegwad-war-memorial

also here

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=s2HNDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT253&lpg=PT253&dq="london+gazette"+Goldsby+12854&source=bl&ots=k-I3eUD_CU&sig=ACfU3U1KsATkrGc2Z9h3u2SiYJbaLROAnA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiqyLKI97r1AhXUesAKHQkNA20Q6AF6BAgEEAM#v=onepage&q="london gazette" Goldsby 12854goldsby&f=false

London Gazette is here

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29719/supplement/8361

Unfortunately the M.M. citations have been destroyed.

Regards,

Graeme

Edited 18 January , 2022 by GraemeClarke

[Coldstreamer]

Try looking in local newspapers

Can be a while between dates so look a few months after 

 

[Herbert]

Thank you very much for the information.

[Neil 2242]

On 18/01/2022 at 09:04, Coldstreamer said:

Try looking in local newspapers

I had a quick scan for him in newspapers.

Found nothing pertinent to the question, but thought this was interesting anyway:

 

[charlie962]

That missing man is interesting. There is a 1911 census for Wales for a Herbert Goldsby born 1887 Paddington, working as a miner.

A search of Welsh Library newspaper archive brings up several hits including why 'Bert' won his medal and how he was killed.

Here are the links:

"IPANTYFFYNON HERO KILLED.|1916-09-02|Llais Llafur - Welsh Newspapers" https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3978615/3978619/61/Goldsby

"TYCROES. I|1916-01-12|The Cambria Daily Leader - Welsh Newspapers" https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4100792/4100799/143/Goldsby

"TYCROES.|1916-08-12|Herald of Wales and Monmouthshire Recorder - Welsh Newspapers" https://newspapers.library.wales/view/4115274/4115276/52/Goldsby

He was recommended for the DCM for work done only two days before he fell to a sniper's bullet.

Charlie

[charlie962]

I suggest you search further in that Welsh archive (just use 'goldsby' as the search term) because there are numerous reports on his progression. He had trfd to the machine gun section, he was an orphan, he was twice recommended for distinguished service...

For you then to pick out the facts and beware of journalistic licence.

Charlie

[Ivor Anderson]

His MM index card confirms that he was with the 9th RWF when he won his MM: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6164728

There is no. MM schedule number, but the authorisation reference for the batch of MMs - 0137/2791

Have you checked the 9th battalion war diary for a mention? https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353063

Edited 20 January , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional information

[Ivor Anderson]

Sergeant Beard of the 9th Bn. got a DCM for July 1916: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29760/supplement/9288

I think this was for the enemy counter attacks on 3rd July 1916 which included 'several bomb attacks'.

He and Capt. H Lloyd Williams MC were presented to HM the King as representatives of the battalion at a parade on 14th August 1916.

Edited 20 January , 2022 by Ivor Anderson
Additional information

[Ivor Anderson]

There are many other RWF soldiers listed for the MM in the same LG. Three others even at the bottom of the same page as Herbert:

e.g. Henry J. Howells 11741 was also with the 9th Bn. as were Stephen Emery 13509, William Pemberton 12999, and W E F Jones 15823 - but with authority ref. 0137/2775  (Edward Walter Gillbe was with 2nd Bn., as was James Hogan - ref. 0137/2775).

Edited 20 January , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[charlie962]

9th BN men awarded MMs in the same gazette as Goldsby, but of course not necessarily for the same action or even the same day, were:

13452 Bithell, Harold who died 20/11/16

13509 Emery

11741 Howells

15823 Jones 

12999 Pemberton

23103 Stickler 

13419 Shotton 

33241 Webster

the other RWF men were 2nd Bn

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 January , 2022 by charlie962

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Charlie. The 19th Division A&QMG WD for 18th July 1916 records 66 MM ribbons presented for 'La Boisselle'. Note entry for 24th too:

 

Edited 20 January , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[charlie962]

1 minute ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Thanks Charlie. The 19th Division A&QMG WD for 18th July 1916 records 66 MM ribbons presented for 'La Boisselle':

But that is not the action for which Goldsby was recommended. It was for something c 25/7/16, two days before he died, if the press reports are anything to go by.

 

[Ivor Anderson]

The September 1916 newspaper report says he was 'recommended for the DCM 2 days before he died'. The report may not be totally accurate, but it implies that the recommendation was c.25th and that the action was earlier.

It would roughly tie in with the 24th July entry in 19th Division A&QMG WD re 20 DCMs downgraded to MMs.

Howard Williamson puts the cut off date for this gazette at 23rd July 1916. 

Edited 20 January , 2022 by Ivor Anderson