CharlotteCollins00 Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 Hi all, I have been doing my family history and discovered my 2x Great Grandad died in Gallipoli. We never knew the family however since me starting the family tree I have located all the cousins. When researching my GG Grandad i was under the impression his family had sent his medals back due to one of the records, however I have just found another record where it looks like his medals were then reissued. As I don't know the family further up the tree I am unsure as to if this is the case. To complicate matters my gg grandad was an Irish Traveller which meant due to tradition his brother married my gg grandads widow, they continued to claim for his pension which landed them in front of a judge. Can anyone provide me with any clarification as too if the medals are still with the MoD or if they are out in the world somewhere. Thank you, Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 Looks like they were received back for amendment in November 1923 but for some reason weren't re-issued until November 1925. Generally speaking, even if medals were returned "Not known at this address" the authorities wouldn't sit on them for ever as far as I know. Authorisation was sought to scrap them and await contact. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteCollins00 Posted 10 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2022 Hi both, Thank you for confirming! I had thought so when I saw the ‘reissd’. Any idea as to what adjustment would have needed to be made and why it would take so long? thank you again, Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 The medal card shows the BWM & Victory medals plus the 15 Star returned as undeliverable. Usual explanation is a change of address and as a signature was required the medals could not be delivered to the rightful owner. I also think that in many cases the infantry records offices already knew they had incorrect/out of date contact details and didn't actually post the medals but eventually returned then to the medal office who annotated the medal roll & card. Interesting that while the roll mentions the BWM & Victory being reissued the card fails to add that information. Not seen the 15 Star roll so can't comment but as the card makes no reference to the reissue perhaps the star was also reissued. If so, then the original medals are or at least were out there somewhere. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 Sorry but there's nothing on the card or roll shown that says anything about the medals being wrong. Amendments or adjustments to the medals did not happen in this case. 8153/adt is an admin reference. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteCollins00 Posted 10 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2022 2 minutes ago, TEW said: The medal card shows the BWM & Victory medals plus the 15 Star returned as undeliverable. Usual explanation is a change of address and as a signature was required the medals could not be delivered to the rightful owner. I also think that in many cases the infantry records offices already knew they had incorrect/out of date contact details and didn't actually post the medals but eventually returned then to the medal office who annotated the medal roll & card. Interesting that while the roll mentions the BWM & Victory being reissued the card fails to add that information. Not seen the 15 Star roll so can't comment but as the card makes no reference to the reissue perhaps the star was also reissued. If so, then the original medals are or at least were out there somewhere. TEW Thank you so much, where would I find the 15 star roll to see? Due to them being Irish Travellers I assumed the address thing was highly likely. Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 10 January , 2022 Admin Share Posted 10 January , 2022 The Medal Roll for the BWM and VM showsthey were sent out in the normal way, by registered mail to the address of the next of kin. They were undelivered and returned under a CRV or Certified Receipt Voucher dated 23 November 1923. They were returned under the terms of King Regulations 1743, "Medals which, at the end of 10 years, still remained unclaimed, will be sent to the India Office (If granted for India Service), or to the deputy director of ordnance stores, Royal Dockyard (Medal Branch), Woolwich (if granted for other services) to be broken up. A.O.402 (1913)." The ‘adt’ is a clerical reference it’s meaning is lost. The next of kin for some unknown reason then notified the army of their new address and the medals were sent out under an Issue Voucher ‘IV’on the date shown two years later. The 14-15 Star was also returned with a CRV dated 23.11.1923, which is odd as the medals were usually issued separately. It was reissued against the same Issue Voucher 14-15 Roll indexed as J Stokes https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/5119/images/41804_612057_10738-00079?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=61fdafadc968f04b2b3ee34745fbe7f1&usePUB=true&_phsrc=TZl2&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=4993250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 10 January , 2022 Share Posted 10 January , 2022 15 Star roll will be on Ancestry, same as the other roll & card. A search under Medal Rolls for Stokes and 6009 should bring up two hits. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteCollins00 Posted 11 January , 2022 Author Share Posted 11 January , 2022 Thank you all so much for the clarification. I’m glad that they must have been somewhere within the family even if now they aren’t! I will now go searching for them! Thank you once again, this forum is amazing! Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 11 January , 2022 Admin Share Posted 11 January , 2022 9 hours ago, CharlotteCollins00 said: I will now go searching for them! The British Medal Forum has a 'Seeking Family Medals" section https://britishmedalforum.com You can also get replicas - a forum search on 'replica medals' will give you an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 11 January , 2022 Share Posted 11 January , 2022 Hi Charlotte, Put a "Comment" on the Ancestry MIC/Rolls sections and any other you wish stating why you are searching.. It does work. If a collector has them and views the "Comment" boxes then you may get a message. I saw a message on Ancestry from a collector in N .Ireland and did a swop to obtain my wife's great uncle's Brit and Vic. Try it, nothing lost. Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 11 January , 2022 Share Posted 11 January , 2022 His widow Margaret must have been known about as she is listed in Soldiers' Effects in March 1916 and again in Feb 1919. There is a claim for Margaret & Children. Looks like Stokes was an alias as he has records under Burke. I'm seeing at least five ledgers/cards (under Stokes 6009) via WFA regarding the pension to his widow Margaret. There is one dated 10/12/1926 with address of Littlewater St, Langford and the entry - obtaining payment of pension subsequent to remarriage. There's an undated one with another address - Killaloe, Co. Clare. Payments started in Jan 1916. There are further cards/ledgers under Burke 6009, including one that lists his children. Potentially there are ten entries for him via the Western Front Association or Fold3. Margaret may well have moved around but she would have to had kept an address on record from 1916 to collect the pension. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteCollins00 Posted 14 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2022 Thank you all for the above, sorry about the delay I managed to go on holiday! I have posted in various places so will keep my fingers crossed. The name 'changes' definitely confuse things however he was born a Stokes with Burke being his Grandmothers maiden name, his father also swapped between Stokes and Burke and it did continue down the tree. Somethings I don't think I will ever find the answers too! Again thank you all so, so much for your help on this, this forum is invaluable! Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 14 February , 2022 Share Posted 14 February , 2022 Charlotte check out lot 446 https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ukauctioneers.com/pdf_catalogues/4991_no_images.pdf back in 2012 but there may be a slim chance the auctioneers may have records of who won the lot. he is listed https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/clare_men_women_great_war_23.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteCollins00 Posted 14 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2022 37 minutes ago, chaz said: Charlotte check out lot 446 https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ukauctioneers.com/pdf_catalogues/4991_no_images.pdf back in 2012 but there may be a slim chance the auctioneers may have records of who won the lot. he is listed https://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/clare_men_women_great_war_23.pdf Oh wow! I honestly can’t thank you enough! I have dropped them an email so fingers crossed they may be able to help me further. You have made my year! thank you again, Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 14 February , 2022 Share Posted 14 February , 2022 if of any consolation, in the nineties I asked the regimental museum in Gloucester if they knew of any of my great uncles medals (in my signature). They replied they knew they went to auction in the seventies but nothing else. last year (or maybe 2020) the three sets including plaques appeared at auction as one lot. cost a pretty penny but now back in the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlotteCollins00 Posted 14 February , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 February , 2022 8 minutes ago, chaz said: if of any consolation, in the nineties I asked the regimental museum in Gloucester if they knew of any of my great uncles medals (in my signature). They replied they knew they went to auction in the seventies but nothing else. last year (or maybe 2020) the three sets including plaques appeared at auction as one lot. cost a pretty penny but now back in the family. Oh wow! How do you check all the auctions? I won’t ever stop looking and will remain hopefully. I’m glad that your family can treasure them now. Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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