Post 1918 Trench warfare

[Tim Birch]

I watched the documentory on George Orwell last night and it showed a sequence filmed in during the Spanish Civil War. This showed militiamen manning a trench which was reminiscent of the Great War. Orwell was himself shot in the throat when he looked over the parapet.

This got me thinking about post 1918 trench warfare, and how many subsequent battles reverted to this stagnant form of warfare? One of the best examples I can think of was the battle of Dien Bien Phu in in the 1950's French Indo-China. Films of this show a complex defensive trench system very reminiscant of the Great War with waves of attackers being mown down by artillery and machine guns. Can anyone think of other examples post Great War or even during or post WW2?

Tim

[Paul Reed]

My father served at Anzio in WW2; aspects of the fighting there were very much like the Western Front, something he told me many times during our early trips to the Western Front.

Certain operations on the Eastern Front in WW2 were also very much like WW1 with bunker complexes, trenches, barbed wire and MGs; there was an excellent article in an early issue of After The Battle magazine describing a 'Diggers-like' excavation of a part of the front in Poland.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

There were also examples of trenches being dug in Korea. I also saw some in Bosnia.

Ian

[CROONAERT]

I've heard that Khe Sanh (1968?), held by the USMC and relieved by the 1st Air Cav, resembled a WW1 battlefield with trench and bunker systems defending the hilltop and airstrip.

Korea is famous for trench warfare at certain times,and,as Paul stated, the WW2 Eastern Front degenerated into static trench warfare on many occasions (just watch "Cross of Iron"!).In fact ,if you ever visit the war museum at Diekirch, there is an informative section on the Luxembourgers who served in the German Army of WW2.This has many sketch drawings by one such soldier, depicting life in the East.These drawings are very similar to ones dating from the Great War. The battle of the Hurtgenwald has also been likened to that of the Argonne in 1918.

I'm uncertain here, but do I remember hearing reports of trench warfare in the Iran-Iraq War? I may be wrong here, but I'm certain that one of the Middle-East wars this period had such conditions.

Dave.

[armourersergeant]

I think i remember reading that the Irag/Iran war was very like the first world war for the trench like enviroment they lived and fought in. I suppose if you think about it trench warfare was not really knew in world war one nor is it old now. It is the process of digging down to protect yourself. The Iraqi's used it in 1991 and it will probably be used again. To my opinion it was not the trench that made the first war what it was, but the application of the machine gun, artillery and mass armies.

Arm.

[John_Hartley]

And, even more recently, there were regular shots of trenches in Afganistan being defended by both the Taliban and the "war lords". Proved not to be much defence against carpet bombing, though.

[Mark Hone]

In the 50th anniversary year it is very interesting to read A.J. Barker's excellent account of the Korean War Battle of the Hook, April-May 1953: 'Fortune Favours The Brave'. This has trench warfare aplenty. Particularly fascinating is his description of patrolling which is straight out of the Great War, with the British Army still being ordered to 'dominate no-man's land'.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

As an addition to the Korean War theme, Parkinson recnetly interviewed Michael Caine, who spoke about his war experiences. One of the stories concerned when he and three others were on patrol between the lines. Interesting and emotional stuff.

Ian

[Tim Birch]

Ian, I didn't see the Parkinson program, but your post reminded me of how in the 1970's I fell into conversation with a bloke who had done his National Service in Korea. He recounted how one night he and the other teenagers in his Section were sent out on a patrol between the lines. Their Sergeant, a Regular close to retirement who had been right through WW2, got "the wind up" whilst they were out. He had had enough and just wanted an easy life. Once they were out of earshot of the British lines the patrol spent the night hiding in the deepest shell hole they could find and concocted a completely false report. Just before dawn they returned to their lines where the Sergeant made his "Report"

As my aquaintance said he and the other National servicemen were just a bunch of scared kids who weren't going to rock the boat, but from then onwards they ceased to respect their Sergeant. (Possibly a touch of double standards here!?)

I wonder how often events like this occured in the Great War? Although understandable behaviour from people who were scared, it could have had disasterous consequences if military planning depended on the accuracy of a patrol's report.

Tim

[ianw]

Human nature being what it is, "offensive patrols " might be tempted to seek out a convenient shell-hole to pass a few hours in . I think those above pretty rapidly got wind of this and thought up schemes to ensure that patrols went up to the German lines. I have certainly read of a roll of a particularly easily identifiable wire being taken up to very close to the German lines with orders that each subsequent patrol had to bring back a section of it to prove they were being "offensive enough". No doubt ingenious ways were thought up to circumvent control methods such as these.

[CROONAERT]

Particularly fascinating is his description of patrolling which is straight out of the Great War, with the British Army still being ordered to 'dominate no-man's land'.

This description is still in use today (or at least it was in the early '90s, when I last (had to) hear of it). It was one of the tasks (if my memory serves me correctly) of a so-called "standing patrol".

Dave.