Hugh Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Attached is a photograph of my grandfather. The cap badge looks to me to be that of the Royal Artillery, but I wondered whether there was any way of telling whether he was actually serving in the Royal Field Artillery or Royal Garrison Artillery (I'm trying to trace his MIC)? Not sure whether this helps, but my mother also remembers seeing a picture of him in a white military uniform. Excuse my ignorance of military uniforms, but would servicemen in the Royal Artillery in WW1 have been issued with a white uniform? Interestingly, my mother was not aware of his service in the RA but had always believed that he'd served in the cavalry, so I suppose it's possible that he also served in another regiment, besides the RA, or could this signify that he served in the Royal Horse Artillery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Hugh, Any chance of a high resolution rescan of his right shoulder. This shoulder badge may become clearer and solve your question. At the moment it looks like neither RGA or RFA, but the cap badge and rest of his outfit is correct for either. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Wouldn't the white lanyard on the left shoulder indicate RHA? Squirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Unfortunately for the researchers, both the RA and the RGA wore the same pattern cap badge with no differentiation. Obviously this man is mounted, but horses were to be found in the RA, RGA and RHA. The shoulder titles hold the clue. A white uniform (or light colored khaki drill) could be found on an overseas posting in hot weather, so no definative help there. White uniforms were not considered "full dress" in temperate climes. DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Fisher Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 I reckon that's a 'G' in the shoulder title, so RGA? But I'm probably wrong................ Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 16 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2005 Thanks for your replies guys. I will attempt to get a higher resolution scan done soon and will post when available. DrB. You mentioned that he was obviously mounted. Excuse my ignorance, but how do you determine that? Squirrel. What is the significance of the White Lanyard? Thanks Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 16 March , 2005 Share Posted 16 March , 2005 Mounted troops by the bandolier. RHA wore a white lanyard but so did some other RA units. Squirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 17 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2005 OK, I've attached a higher resolution image of the shoulder, but unfortunately it's not as clear as it could be. What would we expect to see on the shoulder? The initials of the regiment served in? Also, can we determine what rank he was? With regard to the khaki drill uniform, what postings during WW1 would this sort of unifom have been issued for? Thanks Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrB Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Initials to look for on the shoulder straps are RA for Royal Artillery (clerks, admin tyes), RFA for Royal Field Artillery, RGA for Royal Garrison Artillery or RHA for Royal Horse Artillery. I cannot see a stripe on his uniform, so I imagine he would be a private ( or whatever they were termed) Insofar as khaki drill, this would be found in any hot weather posting, Egypt, Gallipoli (in some regiments) and generally "East of the Suez" Hope this helps a little, anyway. DrB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Hugh, Your man is not wearing any shoulder titles denoting RGA etc. unless they are cloth type which cannot be descerned ?? Interesting this as he certainly has something metalic on his shoulder which I do not recognise. His rank in this picture would be Gunner if he was artillery. This uniform would be standard first issue for all theatres. The lack of rank or trade markings would suggest this to be near recruitment time. Conversely his distressed hat would indicate otherwise. If serving in warmer theatres tropical cotton uniform (drill) was issued often with a pith helmet and pugree. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Hugh this attached pic shows RGA shoulder titles and gunners (gun) on right sleeve. Your man does not have this gun so maybe he was RFA which from my few photos did not have the gun insignia on right sleeve. Perhaps LB can clarify this. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 RFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olosangus Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 What was your grandad's name - if it is not too common a name then you should be able to look him up on the mic's and find him - that woudl show which branch of teh artillery he served in. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 18 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 18 March , 2005 Once again, thanks for your replies, I really appreciate your help. With regard to his rank, bearing in mind that he was mounted (bandolier), is he likely to have been a Driver rather than a Gunner? His name was Thomas Mitchell, and a search of the MIC's brings back 19 possibles in the Artillery regiments, as follows ..... Regt Number Rank Royal Field Artillery L/9474 Battery Serjeant Major... Royal Field Artillery 574 Corporal... Royal Field Artillery 13424 Saddler Corporal... Royal Field Artillery 70766 Driver Royal Field Artillery 2178 Driver... Royal Field Artillery 44 Driver... Royal Field Artillery 169866 Driver... Royal Field Artillery 5686 Gunner Royal Field Artillery 169672 Gunner Royal Field Artillery 127953 Gunner Royal Field Artillery 93225 Gunner Royal Field Artillery 79151 Gunner Royal Field Artillery 2121 Gunner... Royal Field Artillery 610 Gunner... Royal Field Artillery 606 Gunner... Royal Field Artillery 47357 Gunner... Royal Field Artillery 231741 Royal Garrison Artillery 517 Driver Royal Garrison Artillery 106 Gunner... If we can determine his rank/regiment, coupled with the fact that he is likely to have served in one of the overseas postings (as mentioned earlier), I'm hoping that I may be able to nail down his MIC. It's also quite noticeable that a lot of the listed numbers are quite small. Were these regt numbers issued sequentially, thereby possibly indicating when a soldier entered the service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 18 March , 2005 Share Posted 18 March , 2005 Hugh, The Bandolier is not indicative of him being a driver, all RGA men had these and I believe RFA. The first photo above is RGA Gunner with bandolier. Your man could be either driver of gunner as thay are effectively the same rank. Drivers however would normally be found in the Ammunition Column of an RGA Battery whereas gunners would drive in a horse battery. These are not hard and fast observations. Being a driver would also assume a horse battery rather than a motor battery, in the case of the latter the ASC did the driving . The second photo is of a RFA gunner who also drives, note spurs. The low numbers refer to many TF or locally raised batteries up to April 1917, they were then renumbered with 6 digits. Generally many of these either already existed or were formed late 1914 early 1915. The numbers were sequential with exceptions ie a vacant number could be filled by a new man. Numbers duplicate in most battery's so althogh your list shows some close numbers they may be for different batteries. On the MIC's if the number shown is low and not followed by a later number (ie only one reg number listed) it is fair to assume the man was not in the army in 1917 either through death, injury or other. If you know your man survived the war, it would be reasonable to assume he will have a 6 digit number if he was from a locally raised or TF unit. However your list also has some regular unit numbers. Thus you could tentatively eliminate either group as required. Where was your man from??? Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted 22 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2005 Thanks Again Roop. My grandfather was from St. Mellons in Monmouthshire (between Newport and Cardiff). He certainly did survive the Great War (although sadly, he commited suicide in 1943, so I never got to meet him). I've often wondered whether his suicide was related to his experiences in the Great War. Unfortunately, we'll never know. He was born in Feb 1898, so I guess it's most likely he joined up sometime midway through the war, but without solid facts I'm not sure this could help us much? His older brother had been a member of the BEF (2nd Welch Rgt) and was killed in 1914. Regards and Thanks again Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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