Stebie9173 Posted 14 March , 2005 Share Posted 14 March , 2005 Can anyone help me with some information on my great-uncle. He was Sgt. Herbert William Beeby, S/8772, 9th Black Watch. Despite being from Peterborough, Cambridgeshire he was a Sergeant in the 9th (Service) Battalion of the Black Watch. He enlisted in London on 3rd May 1915 according to his death announcement in the local paper. He died of wounds at Arras on 14th April 1917 at 42nd Casualty Clearing Station and is buried at Aubigny Cemetery Extension per CWGC. From his medal cards he was awarded the 1914-15 Star and then the Victory Medal and British War Medal. His Medal Card states that he entered the Theatre of War in France on 20/10/1915. I presume that for the interim period he was training at Salisbury Plain? The 9th Black Watch was attached to the 15th Division, which I think fought at Loos in 1915, and then through the Somme in 1916. I gather from books on the battle of Arras (and from other posts on this forum) that the 9th Black Watch entered battle on 9th April 1917 in the front assault battalions on the 15th Division’s right flank to the left of the railway line and then would have been part of the infantry, tanks (and belated) cavalry attack on Monchy village on the 11th and its subsequent holding action. Coincidentally his younger brother, Walter, was a Sapper in the 12th Divsion on the 15th's right flank, I believe. Could anyone tell me if there are any specifics of Herbert Beeby’s fate at Arras? Is there any sort of mention in the Black Watch War Diaries? (A long shot, I know) I also noticed that “9th Black Watch” aka Derek had posted a picture of some of the NCOs from the 7th battalion at Salisbury Plain, I think. Are there similar line-ups of the 9th featuring Herbert? Many thanks to anyone who can help, Steve Beeby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Steve, Derek (aka 9th Black Watch) has a few photographs of the various companies etc of the 9th Black Watch at Salisbury in 1915 - unfortunatley they do not carry the names of the men on them. There is a very interesting book entitled "To Arras, 1917 A Volunteer's Odyssey" by Walter Reid which tells the story of an officer of the 9th who was wounded on the 9th April at Arras and subsequently died. It provides some interesting information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 15 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Thanks for the reply, Derek. I shall keep an eye out for the book. I am starting to seriously consider a trip to Kew (maybe even this weekend). Do you know if a copy of the Battalion War Diaries be on file there? Any other suggestions for things to look for if I go? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 15 March , 2005 Share Posted 15 March , 2005 Steve, This is a picture from Derek's collection showing the Warrant Officers, Staff Sergeants and Sergeants at Parkhouse Camp, June 1915. Sorry to say that I don't know any of the names Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 16 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2005 Many thanks, Derek. Although this is entirely unscientific and we have no pictures of Herbert, I would say the man 3rd from the left as we look on the back row has the Beeby look about him Does anyone have any details on where the 9th Black Watch was engaged during the war. I think he missed the main part of the Battle of Loos, arriving in the Theatre of War on the 10-10-1915. By the way does this mean Embarkation, arrival in France or at a final divisional location? Just out of curiousity, would a Sassenach in the Black watch be entitled to wear a kilt? If so, what Tartan would they wear, if any? Thanks Steve Beeby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9th Black Watch Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Hi Steve, Sorry, I just noticed your post. Your great-uncle arrived in France on 20 October 1915 as part of a draft to replace casualties sustained at Loos. My great-grandfather, John Patrick, arrived with another draft a few days earlier on the 13th. I'll have a dig around and should be able to provide copies of the war diary extracts although I doubt Sergt. Beeby will be mentioned by name. I'll be back in touch this evening. All the best, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 17 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Thanks, Derek, I was hoping you would reply. Anything you can come up with will be gratefully received! Steve Beeby PS. And you are right it was the 20-10-1915 that he arrived in Thetare of War and not the 10th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9th Black Watch Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 Hi Steve, Sergt. Beeby arrived in France on 20 October 1915 - probably part of a draft of 190 Other Ranks who joined from the 11th Battaion on 24 October. At that point the Battalion were in billets at Noyelle. The 9th Battalion moved into reserve trenches immediately south of Hulloch Road two days later - losing three men to artillery fire. I guess this would have been Beeby's first experience of the trenches? Like Derek, I would guess he was probably fatally wounded on 9 April 1917 during the attack on Railway Triangle - although the battalion had occupied front line trenches since 3 April, suffering a number of casualties due to heavy artillery fire. I'll copy these extracts when I get a few moments tomorrow. I'll have a dig around and see if I can find anything else of interest. Unfortunately, the majority of photographs I have show the Battalion before they left for France in July 1915 - before Sergt. Beeby joined. Next time I'm at Black Watch RHQ I'll see if I can look at the Depot Roll Books to confirm his date of enlistment. Not all of these survive, but you can usually find men with S- prefix four digit service numbers. All the best, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 17 March , 2005 Share Posted 17 March , 2005 As a soldier in the Black Watch he would be required to wear a kilt of Black Watch tartan. It was his uniform. He would not have uniform trousers. Cold on the knees at first, but you soon get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 23 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 23 March , 2005 I managed to get over to the PRO at Kew at the weekend - tacked onto another trip. Never a good idea, but it was worth it for a "Recce". I managed a good 3 hours, mainly perusing the 9th Black Watch War Diaries. A fascinating read, and fairly well detailed (too much for the time I had ). I spotted a couple of nice trench maps of Loos (the "Hairpin", etc.) and quite often there was a list of monthly casualties. I did note that the 9th Btn. & 44th Brigade was relieved by the 46th Brigade after the initial attack on the 9th April 1917 and went into reserve - at Hermes Trench (Is that the trench running N-S from the western point of the railway triangle?) They did not take part in the attack on Monchy having been relieved back into Arras itself. Other Battalions of the 44th must have been in the Monchy attack. It does pretty much weigh the balance of probabilities in favour of Herbert being mortally wounded on 9-4-17 - the battalion took 241 casualties (3 officers killed, 12 wounded, 35 other ranks killed, 176 wounde, 17 missing) out of a strength of 19 officers and 618 other ranks. It seems that the rest of the battalion was in Arras in relative comfort as Herbert breathed his last. Talk about a lottery... My visit also confirmed that his (and his fathers and brothers) service records were destroyed courtesy of the Luftwaffe. Now, must PLAN my next visit... Steve Beeby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9th Black Watch Posted 25 March , 2005 Share Posted 25 March , 2005 Hi Steve, Did you manage to get everything you wanted from the war diary. If there are any entries you're after let me know. I haven't had an opportunity to transcribe the info concerning the attack on 9 April but if you're interested let me know. Unfortunately, I don't have copies of the maps. I'll be at Black Watch RHQ on 1 April. If I can add any details on Sgt. Beeby I'll be in touch, although with the exception of confirming his date and place of enlistment, I doubt I'll be able to find anything else. I'm quite interested in the action as I have a 1914/15 trio to 22 year old Pte. George Henderson Philip, 9th R.Highrs. who was killed in action on 9 April 1917. Like Derek, I would recommend you get a hold of the book by Walter Reid - a very readable account of events. All the best, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9th Black Watch Posted 25 March , 2005 Share Posted 25 March , 2005 Steve, I should have added the book was published by Tuckwell Press - now Birlinn. You can order online through the following website for £14.99 - just search for "Arras". Birlinn All the best, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 27 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 March , 2005 Thanks for the recommendation Derek. I'll certainly look the book up. I managed to transcribe the War Diary from 1-4-17 to 14-4-17 but didn't have time for any more. If you ever get time or already have it transcribed, I wouldn't mind seeing the entries for the attack on Martinpuich on 15-9-16, the attack on High Wood on 8-9-16 or the attack on the Elbow on 17-8-16. I believe 9 BW took part in all of these? I'll look them up myself when I get back up to Kew in April, but if you have time, then it would be great! Thanks again, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9th Black Watch Posted 28 March , 2005 Share Posted 28 March , 2005 No problem Steve, I'll transcribe the entries as soon as possible. The 9th BW didn't take part in the attack of 15 September 1916 - they were in Divisional Reserve in Scots Redoubt - but will copy the entries for High Wood and the Elbow. All the best, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 28 March , 2005 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2005 Ahh, wrong again. My notes had sort of petered out by then... I just had "Martinpuich" recorded. Many thanks, but no hurry on the others. I'm hoping to be about for some time... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 26 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2005 Bringing this thread back up again, I now have a photo of my Great Uncle Sergeant Herbert William Beeby (albeit a very poor quality one): Looking back at the picture of the 9th Battalion Black Watch pic posted earlier by Derek Robertson (which has been lost, so I've reposted it) he bears a pretty startling resemblance to the moustached man lying at the front of the picture. Derek (either Roberston or 9th Black Watch!), if you read this could you scan the picture so that the man in question is larger please? I would very much appreciate it. Thanks. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9th Black Watch Posted 26 June , 2005 Share Posted 26 June , 2005 Hi Steve, I'll send a scan tomorrow. The photograph is one of several taken at Parkhouse Camp in June 1915 - prior to embarkation the following month. Most of the men who appear in the photographs went to France in July so I'm not sure if it's Sergt. Beeby, although they look fairly similar. All the best, Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 26 June , 2005 Share Posted 26 June , 2005 Surname BEEBY Firstname Herbert William Service number S/8772 Date of death 14/04/1917 Decoration Place of birth Farcet Huntington Other 9th Bn. SNWM roll THE BLACK WATCH (ROYAL HIGHLANDERS) Rank Sgt Theatre of death F.& F. In case you haven't seen this. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 26 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2005 Thanks, Derek. I'd sort of discounted him being in the picture until I looked at it again, and the man at the front sort of leapt out at me! Yes, I have seen the CWGC details, thanks, Malcolm. That was my first ever piece of WW1 Research, except for the fact that we have the telegram informing his father of his death at 42CCS, Aubigny... but all help appreciated nonetheless (Died of wounds per SDGW, enlisted London) There is a thing that puzzles me about his death. The 6 other casualties of the regiment from 9-4-1917 that died of wounds were buried at Duisans, presumably from 8CCS at Agnez-le-Duisans, NW of Arras, yet Herbert is the only one that was taken to 42 CCS at Aubigny, SW of Arras. Anyone got a possible explanation why? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 26 June , 2005 Share Posted 26 June , 2005 not CWGC details - SNWM. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 26 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 26 June , 2005 Ah, yes. Sorry, just that the info was the same. I have seen the SNWM site, though more recently. (It's where I picked up my 9th Battalion DOWs from, not having access to SDGW on CD) Excellent site. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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